Advanced Open Water Disappointment

[tursiops]

As I have been asked in DM for the DAN 2016 report, I've attached it.

Thanks, but where do I find the top ten changes you keep referring to. I've searched and searched in the document and do not see them.

 

[boulderjohn]

No one is asking for massive change.

No. All you are asking for is an independent agency with the power to do final OW certifications for all divers world-wide. Nothing, really.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

No. All you are asking for is an independent agency with the power to do final OW certifications for all divers world-wide. Nothing, really.

Again, first answer this question and then we can address your deflection/distortion of my words.

John,

Before you bring up yet another topic, please address my question regarding DAN's 2016 report of the top ten changes they'd like to see. DAN believes that change is necessary. Do you agree or disagree with DAN? I have attached that report for your convenience.

Let's finish that topic before moving onto your whataboutism.

 

[jborg]

For ease of access, here are the ten most wanted improvements, which are in the "Introduction" section of the report.

I don't particularly have a horse in this race, just observing the discussion... but I find the list in question somewhat frustrating. It's sort of vague and boils down to "be better divers, be healthier, dive more"?

 

[Forbin's Descent]

Well here is some evidence of the widespread incompetence in instruction bwahahahaha

 

[tursiops]

For ease of access, here are the ten most wanted improvements, which are in the "Introduction" section of the report.

View attachment 799123

I don't particularly have a horse in this race, just observing the discussion... but I find the list in question somewhat frustrating. It's sort of vague and boils down to "be better divers, be healthier, dive more"?

Ahhh, Thank You!
I wonder why these have not been mentioned (or even revised) since 2016? Nothing like it in 2017, 2018, 2019, or 2020 (the latest).

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

For ease of access, here are the ten most wanted improvements, which are in the "Introduction" section of the report.

View attachment 799123

I don't particularly have a horse in this race, just observing the discussion... but I find the list in question somewhat frustrating. It's sort of vague and boils down to "be better divers, be healthier, dive more"?

That's a fair comment. I wish agencies would agree on the determination for proper weighting, which translates to Greater Buoyancy Control and Better Ascent Rate Control. I think those 3 items could be combined into one.

More attention to gas planning, well I made it clear that in my opinion rule of thirds sucks, and the result of not teaching min gas is that people dive half-hazardly that is okay as equipment failures are rare (if equipment failures were more common, I estimate there would be an increase in diver deaths). While I include SAC swims and timed swims in my open water courses (where I think it belongs), I would accept that determining the gas consumption rate and swim rate at the start of any further training, as most divers just follow a
guide.

Increased Use of Checklists. BWRAF sucks. I think the agencies should adopt the GUE equipment check of top to bottom, right to left. As well as actual lists. I suspect this is deemed too cumbersome. We need to remember the minimum requirements for an instructor are not very high.

Fewer Equalizing Injuries. Vasalva is easy to teach, but also the most dangerous. This is a time issue. Other techniques are harder to master.

Improved Cardiovascular Health in Divers. No one wants to turn customers away. While I agree and people can't be dying for the swim, there's a lot of looking the other way for the sake of business.

Diving more often. Would like to see this, but it isn't practical for people not living close to an area that is interesting.

Greater Attention to Diving within Limits. Have to address the low pay for dive pros, as they rely on tips.

Fewer equipment issues / Improved Maintenance. Agreed, but not sure how to address this. Some people don't want to even rinse their gear. Shrug.

So I appreciate your comment. I don't know who wrote this part of that report to ask if they were trying to just start a conversation, if they had actual ideas how to implement those changes, etc..

I do think there should be cooperation for investigating issues and having a feedback loop for every incident. Not sweeping things under the rug.

 

[Cthippo]

For ease of access, here are the ten most wanted improvements, which are in the "Introduction" section of the report.

View attachment 799123

I don't particularly have a horse in this race, just observing the discussion... but I find the list in question somewhat frustrating. It's sort of vague and boils down to "be better divers, be healthier, dive more"?

To be fair, these are "Things we want to see in diving", which is not the same as "Things we want to see in SCUBA instruction".

 

[scubadada]

This is a common myth. I believed it myself once. AOW is not a division from a supposed earlier, fuller class.

The AOW class was created by the Los Angeles County program in the mid 1960s. They were concerned that too many people were completing the beginning program and then dropping out of scuba. They thought an advanced class that amplified key skills and introduced divers to a variety of dive experiences that might pique their interest would help.

After they did that, NAUI added AOW to their program for the same reason. (NAUI's leadership came from LA County.)

Other agencies eventually followed suit.

The LA County advanced diver program looks nothing like PADI AOW

Los Angeles County - Parks & Recreation

parks.lacounty.gov

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

To be fair, these are "Things we want to see in diving", which is not the same as "Things we want to see in SCUBA instruction".

so if agencies can't figure out how to address these items, how does anyone expect individual divers to do so?