Noboundaries
Guest
Thanks pir8. I'll check it out.
Advanced Certifications....Suggestions??
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Noboundaries, much closer to you are the wrecks in San Diego.
In evaluating specialty classes, it's very important to find out what the instructor is going to put into them. For example, our "deep" specialty consisted of doing a couple of deep dives and hanging on a boat-supplied deco bottle for 8 minutes (while holding onto the upline). We talked almost not at all about decompression tables and the theory behind them, and NOT AT ALL about gas management and planning for deep diving. We did no practice of emergency skills in midwater, or anything as simple as an air-sharing ascent (something which might turn out handy to be able to do on a deep dive
).
So, although a deep diving specialty sounds like a good idea, if taught to minimum standards, it's pretty worthless. I'd say the same for the rest of the specialty classes I took from my original shop, to the point where I never even bothered to finish the nav specialty.
I think the sad part is that it behooves the student to do some research on boards like this, try to figure out what OUGHT to be taught in a given class, and then interview the instructor about whether those components will be covered. It's the intellectual analogue of the Fundies students practicing all the skills before they get to the class
In evaluating specialty classes, it's very important to find out what the instructor is going to put into them. For example, our "deep" specialty consisted of doing a couple of deep dives and hanging on a boat-supplied deco bottle for 8 minutes (while holding onto the upline). We talked almost not at all about decompression tables and the theory behind them, and NOT AT ALL about gas management and planning for deep diving. We did no practice of emergency skills in midwater, or anything as simple as an air-sharing ascent (something which might turn out handy to be able to do on a deep dive
).So, although a deep diving specialty sounds like a good idea, if taught to minimum standards, it's pretty worthless. I'd say the same for the rest of the specialty classes I took from my original shop, to the point where I never even bothered to finish the nav specialty.
I think the sad part is that it behooves the student to do some research on boards like this, try to figure out what OUGHT to be taught in a given class, and then interview the instructor about whether those components will be covered. It's the intellectual analogue of the Fundies students practicing all the skills before they get to the class
BlueC5Kitten
Contributor
I am facing similar decisions with regard to continuation of my training. I am recently OW certified, and have done a couple of tag-along dives with the LDS guys in different environments (colder water, rivers with current, etc) to improve my bouyancy and weighting efficiency. I also have already invested in a dive computer so I can correctly guage where I am falling short of my dive expectations (too many "rapid" ascents in shallow water, etc.). My problem is I go into the water with an intent to multi-task, as I am avid photographer and plan to capture lasting underwater memories, as well as work on my dive skills.
My goal is to maintain recreational diving as a passion, so I believe the next steps for me will be Nitrox, AOW and Wreck diving. The LDS is having a trip in May to Panama City, where I plan to complete all of that training, but in the interim, I am going to keep diving local rivers, lakes and springs to further hone my skills and to obtain that "perfect dive profile." That's the goal, anyway!
I want to continue to improve with time, and am planning a birthday excursion to Bonaire, again with the LDS, for a week. This is the main reason I want to ensure I am Nitrox certified and am better familiarized with multi-tasking whilst diving. I've heard nothing but incredible things about the reef systems down there, since they are so protected.
I think Rescue is another good idea, but will probably seek that out in about a year's time, once I have a good familiarization with recreational diving, and have the experiences to draw on for "what-if" scenarios. Incidentally, in our NAUI OW class, we ran through a few "rescue" activities, that one of the PADI class attendees didn't have to complete. That is a curious thing to me, as I would think the training should be standardized to ensure rescue ascents with oral BC inflation and surface tows were requisite for all divers.
My goal is to maintain recreational diving as a passion, so I believe the next steps for me will be Nitrox, AOW and Wreck diving. The LDS is having a trip in May to Panama City, where I plan to complete all of that training, but in the interim, I am going to keep diving local rivers, lakes and springs to further hone my skills and to obtain that "perfect dive profile."
That's the goal, anyway!I want to continue to improve with time, and am planning a birthday excursion to Bonaire, again with the LDS, for a week. This is the main reason I want to ensure I am Nitrox certified and am better familiarized with multi-tasking whilst diving. I've heard nothing but incredible things about the reef systems down there, since they are so protected.
I think Rescue is another good idea, but will probably seek that out in about a year's time, once I have a good familiarization with recreational diving, and have the experiences to draw on for "what-if" scenarios. Incidentally, in our NAUI OW class, we ran through a few "rescue" activities, that one of the PADI class attendees didn't have to complete. That is a curious thing to me, as I would think the training should be standardized to ensure rescue ascents with oral BC inflation and surface tows were requisite for all divers.
Noboundaries
Guest
TSandM, thank you for the input. Doc, your experience is the clearest, loudest voice in the choir of choices. Nothing annoys me more than paying for knowledge, taking the class, then realizing you would have learned more doing your own research and planning your own activities. I learned long ago how to seamlessly reverse manage class instructors to get what I need from them, but it annoys me when I have to do so. I'd rather be a sponge to someone else's vast expertise while I'm learning and growing.
Rescue Diver appears to be the one specialty with a unanimous backing. We already had that one on our list. Deep, EA/Nitrox, Cavern, and Wreck appeal to us because they are pre-requisites to open some technical doors on down the road, doors we find challenging. I know the fellow who locally teaches the Deep Diver specialty and Tec classes, trusting he will put full effort into the experience.
Additionally, there are two specialites that my dive buddy (wife) wants; Navigation and Night. She feels she needs those to feel confident in her ability to fully experience all dive environments and I will be right there with her.
With those Specialties and 50 logged dives we'll have our Master Scuba diver rating. Forgive me if I choke on that title. Personally, based upon my training as a former Navy pilot, I believe that PADI's title is WAY too generous and dangerously egotistical. A Master Scuba Diver rating should measure accomplishment, like getting your Wings in the Navy. We got our Wings after about 200 flights (not including simulators) and had mastered 9 flight specialites. We were still considered only partially trained. It took approximately 100 more flights and 5 more specialties to become fleet qualified.
In my opinion AOW should be called Intermediate Open Water. Master should be changed to Advanced as long as the 50 logged dives included five required specialties (Deep, Navigation, Peak Buoyancy, Night, Rescue) and ten deep dives and ten dives with visibility below say ten feet.
Master Scuba diver could come once you've mastered a dive specialty (Cavern, Cave, Wreck, Ice, Search/Recovery, Altitude, or any of the photo or environmental specialties). 25 to 50 logged dives in the specialty would be required to become a Master Scuba diver and your Master specialty would be spelled out on your c-card. Additional Master specialities could be earned by completing training and logging the required number of dives. To keep the card you should be required to maintain a minimum of 25 dives a year anywhere in any type of water, ten or more in each of your Master specialties (dives could include more than one specialty).
I know, as an infant diver I'm naive and that's not the real world of business competition and marketing, something all certifying agencies must consider in their programs. But I remember an incident that clearly pointed out the problem with the existing titles. On our very first boat dive after getting certified, I heard a European diver tell me he was a master scuba diver, having logged 60 dives in the last five years. He challenged the divemasters on more than one occasion concerning their pre-dive, 45 minute bottom time planning on the 60 foot afternoon dives (he wanted more bottom time). He dove like his ego and I gave him and his family a wide berth.
I'd better shut up before I get banned by PADI forever. I stayed home sick today. This long post was probably the fever and medication talking. Have a good night y'all.
Rescue Diver appears to be the one specialty with a unanimous backing. We already had that one on our list. Deep, EA/Nitrox, Cavern, and Wreck appeal to us because they are pre-requisites to open some technical doors on down the road, doors we find challenging. I know the fellow who locally teaches the Deep Diver specialty and Tec classes, trusting he will put full effort into the experience.
Additionally, there are two specialites that my dive buddy (wife) wants; Navigation and Night. She feels she needs those to feel confident in her ability to fully experience all dive environments and I will be right there with her.
With those Specialties and 50 logged dives we'll have our Master Scuba diver rating. Forgive me if I choke on that title. Personally, based upon my training as a former Navy pilot, I believe that PADI's title is WAY too generous and dangerously egotistical. A Master Scuba Diver rating should measure accomplishment, like getting your Wings in the Navy. We got our Wings after about 200 flights (not including simulators) and had mastered 9 flight specialites. We were still considered only partially trained. It took approximately 100 more flights and 5 more specialties to become fleet qualified.
In my opinion AOW should be called Intermediate Open Water. Master should be changed to Advanced as long as the 50 logged dives included five required specialties (Deep, Navigation, Peak Buoyancy, Night, Rescue) and ten deep dives and ten dives with visibility below say ten feet.
Master Scuba diver could come once you've mastered a dive specialty (Cavern, Cave, Wreck, Ice, Search/Recovery, Altitude, or any of the photo or environmental specialties). 25 to 50 logged dives in the specialty would be required to become a Master Scuba diver and your Master specialty would be spelled out on your c-card. Additional Master specialities could be earned by completing training and logging the required number of dives. To keep the card you should be required to maintain a minimum of 25 dives a year anywhere in any type of water, ten or more in each of your Master specialties (dives could include more than one specialty).
I know, as an infant diver I'm naive and that's not the real world of business competition and marketing, something all certifying agencies must consider in their programs. But I remember an incident that clearly pointed out the problem with the existing titles. On our very first boat dive after getting certified, I heard a European diver tell me he was a master scuba diver, having logged 60 dives in the last five years. He challenged the divemasters on more than one occasion concerning their pre-dive, 45 minute bottom time planning on the 60 foot afternoon dives (he wanted more bottom time). He dove like his ego and I gave him and his family a wide berth.
I'd better shut up before I get banned by PADI forever. I stayed home sick today. This long post was probably the fever and medication talking. Have a good night y'all.
I wouldn't expect someone from the left coast to come out here to take a class unless the Instructor was someone like Chatterton or Kohler.
Noboundaries
Guest
pir8, if the destination is fascinating, unique, and challenging, the training takes on more meaning. We got into scuba to give our vacations a purpose. In the process we found there's always something to learn unique to every destination. Wreck Alley looks interesting; so does Bermuda and the Keys. We'll figure out eventually where we'll get our Wreck specialty and plan a trip to do so.
My wife and I have a philosophy we've lived by all our lives, something we heard voiced in a popular graduation song a few years ago; "Do something every day that scares you." We've since added "and you'll learn how little there is to fear." Diving at night scares my wife. On our first and only night dive in Cozumel last year she was living our philosophy and almost bailed on the dive at 40 feet after about ten minutes of colliding with tunnel vision divers. I recognized her anxiety on the bottom and cupped her tricep with my hand, steering her away from the spacially unaware divers. I began pointing out all the sights she had been missing; octopi, sleeping fish, hermit crabs. She immediately relaxed and enjoyed the rest of the dive. Now she wants the Night specialty, but she wants to get it in clear Cozumel, not murky California. We'll have that specialty in a couple of weeks.
I used to think golf was expensive. I just roughly added up the cost per dive we've invested in classes, equipment, and dive trips in the last year and it comes out to $447.50 / dive. I think playing golf at Pebble Beach just became more realistic!!!!
My wife and I have a philosophy we've lived by all our lives, something we heard voiced in a popular graduation song a few years ago; "Do something every day that scares you." We've since added "and you'll learn how little there is to fear." Diving at night scares my wife. On our first and only night dive in Cozumel last year she was living our philosophy and almost bailed on the dive at 40 feet after about ten minutes of colliding with tunnel vision divers. I recognized her anxiety on the bottom and cupped her tricep with my hand, steering her away from the spacially unaware divers. I began pointing out all the sights she had been missing; octopi, sleeping fish, hermit crabs. She immediately relaxed and enjoyed the rest of the dive. Now she wants the Night specialty, but she wants to get it in clear Cozumel, not murky California. We'll have that specialty in a couple of weeks.
I used to think golf was expensive. I just roughly added up the cost per dive we've invested in classes, equipment, and dive trips in the last year and it comes out to $447.50 / dive. I think playing golf at Pebble Beach just became more realistic!!!!
I wasn't going to add anything because after about two pages of posts I doubt anyone bothers to read. But, I think the one class that everyone glosses over because they are so much further along is some sort of equipment training. I say this because SCUBA is equipment intensive. Somewhere between you first certification and before Rescue one should think about a class or traning on proper equipment maintenence and function. I have not read through the PADI outline for their Equipment Specialty yet (I am a PADI Divemaster, not to be confused with my NAUI Master Diver certification), but I suspect that there is some information on how the most comon items of SCUBA gear work and why you need to do maintenence after a dive. In the Divemaster (DM) certification process it was presented that the DM should be ready to render assistance replacing O-rings, setting up gear, etc. which is great for someone who will be a tropical dive boat host, but it should not be a regular occurance on every dive with anyone certified past basic Open Water SCUBA. You need to know your gear because you survival underwater depend on it working correctly.
Well if I haven't gone and started a new diatribe.
Anyway, in response to the original poster (OP) and to BlueC5Kitten (? interesting name), now that you have entered the "Brotherhood" of the SCUBA Diver, I would reccomend that you seek training along the path of:
1. Equipment specialist
2. Advanced Open Water
3. Peak Performance Buoyancy (if not covered in your Advanced session)
Follow up with specialty classes leading in the direction you think you will be headed as a diver (i.e. you want to see wrecks in deep water take wreck course and a deep diving course)
Rescue is a good course, but it is really geared toward the diver that is aspiring to be a dive professional and it is the first of the series leading to the rating of Instructor. My point is everyone here stresses rescue, rescue, rescue, when in fact the rescue class is training on "how to rescue someone else". Is that not what a DM or an Instructor is expected to do? As an average recreational SCUBA diver, take classes you think will be fun and ask lots of questions.
In leu of a hard-core Rescue class I would reccomend one take some Divers Alert Network (DAN) courses so broden ones knowledge of hoe diving affects the body and what to do if you are involved in a dive related emergency. DAN classes are only four hours long which makes it a lot easier to schedule. Oh and get you First Aid/CPR training right away as well.
Well if I haven't gone and started a new diatribe.
Anyway, in response to the original poster (OP) and to BlueC5Kitten (? interesting name), now that you have entered the "Brotherhood" of the SCUBA Diver, I would reccomend that you seek training along the path of:
1. Equipment specialist
2. Advanced Open Water
3. Peak Performance Buoyancy (if not covered in your Advanced session)
Follow up with specialty classes leading in the direction you think you will be headed as a diver (i.e. you want to see wrecks in deep water take wreck course and a deep diving course)
Rescue is a good course, but it is really geared toward the diver that is aspiring to be a dive professional and it is the first of the series leading to the rating of Instructor. My point is everyone here stresses rescue, rescue, rescue, when in fact the rescue class is training on "how to rescue someone else". Is that not what a DM or an Instructor is expected to do? As an average recreational SCUBA diver, take classes you think will be fun and ask lots of questions.
In leu of a hard-core Rescue class I would reccomend one take some Divers Alert Network (DAN) courses so broden ones knowledge of hoe diving affects the body and what to do if you are involved in a dive related emergency. DAN classes are only four hours long which makes it a lot easier to schedule. Oh and get you First Aid/CPR training right away as well.
The best thing about Rescue is that it teaches you to rescue yourself more so than someone else.
Noboundaries, somebody is going to jump all over me for this, but given what I'm reading about your methodical and analytical approach to acquiring good quality further training, you might consider GUE Fundamentals. If you guys do any cold water diving, I assume you do it in the Monterey area, and Beto Nava is the GUE instructor there. From everything I've heard about his classes, he absolutely goes the extra mile to put the most into them.
Fundamentals will improve your buoyancy and trim, teach you non-silting propulsion techniques (which PPB will not), work on awareness and communication, and give you some good basic information on gas planning and decompression strategies. It's simply an excellent class, even if you do not intend to do further training with GUE or even stay with the DIR approach to diving.
Fundamentals will improve your buoyancy and trim, teach you non-silting propulsion techniques (which PPB will not), work on awareness and communication, and give you some good basic information on gas planning and decompression strategies. It's simply an excellent class, even if you do not intend to do further training with GUE or even stay with the DIR approach to diving.
Noboundaries
Guest
Hey Doc, thanks for the recommendation. I just read the website and I can see why you felt it was appropriate. I liked what I read. I'll check them out further.
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