Advance Open Water Certification

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"Badge chasing lake diver"

Lets not lump all those labels together. While I do agree on the "badge chaser" issue, I do take exception to disdaining "lake divers".

Most of my diving has been in lakes throughout Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Colorado. There is a lot to be learned from diving Texas lakes where visibility is measured in inches, a King Pelican light is a dull glow at 2' and entanglement in trees, roots or fishing line is a constant concern. Complicate this with night, navigation, S&R, PPB, Rescue, Wreck, etc., and many "lake divers" are much more accomplished than many blue water divers.

How about those of us that sometimes dive in rivers/streams? Ever been diving in a river in the Rocky Mountains? Want to talk about a current? Plus the turns and bends with tree roots grabbing at you all the time, in water that may get as warm as 60 degrees but is usually in the 40's. I do this in a wetsuit.

Anyway, I think we can all agree on a few points:

1. Current OW certification standards leave students with an extremely MINIMAL certification.

2. Current agency standards do not place enough emphasis on skill 'mastery'.

3. Current agency standards do not require enough dives for certification, nor enough additional dives at the current level before qualifying for the next certification class.

4. Current societal demands virtually eliminate any hope of changing certification standards for the better. If anything, certification standards will ease in the future due to demands for 'instant gratification'.

5. Agencies will continue the trend of making academics and skills training easier for the potential diver with little or no concern for the impact on safety or the diving professional.

You too, can learn to drive the big rigs in the privacy of your own home. How long before we end up with virtual diving software for the PC and you can just get your c-card in the mail without leaving your desk?
 
I don't know, I was pretty happy to do my last traffic school on-line. And I'm a better driver now because of it!!
 
Yeah, I'm not sure its right to rip on Great Lakes divers derisively as "lake divers". :06:

If you want to see a card shark, SportDiver mag this month has a picture and story of a guy with possibly every PADI card imaginable. :eyebrow:
 
Dutchman:
OK, is it about the money or what ?

It seems that everywhere I turn, someone is telling me to continue the adventure. Up grade your certification to AOW. Why? If I am not planning on teaching. Is it really about the money or is it really necessary? One will say you get more dive time. Can’t I get that without all the advance teaching? Isn’t experience really a better teacher? What do you think? :07:

Wouldn't it make a great second profession, maybe not now but down the road?
 
jbichsel:
"Badge chasing lake diver"

Lets not lump all those labels together. While I do agree on the "badge chaser" issue, I do take exception to disdaining "lake divers".

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly. I didn't mean to slant any of the "swamp divers" of La Republica de Tejas (which I am not a member of :D ). I was trying to say that, given the option, I would rather dive blue with an OW blue diver than someone who has crammed dives 1-60 in two months out at Lake Travis.
 
1RUSTYRIG:
Maybe I didn't express myself clearly. I didn't mean to slant any of the "swamp divers" of La Republica de Tejas (which I am not a member of :D ). I was trying to say that, given the option, I would rather dive blue with an OW blue diver than someone who has crammed dives 1-60 in two months out at Lake Travis.

I know what you're saying and to a point I agree. Lake Travis pre-1994 had great (for Texas) vis of 25-35'. Spring 1994 trashed all the lakes around here because of all the rain. Now Travis vis is 10' on a good day.

However, I have been diving various blue water in the Pacific and Carribean, and have seen a full range of dive quality no matter what the cert or experience level. I've seen instructors that you could barely tell any difference between their skills and their students.

It's amazing how many instructors I've seen pack up their gear and students and leave a site when my partner shows up wearing his hat that says "PADI Course Director".

I think diving and skill mastery is very much dependant on the student, the instructor and conditions. Even a poor ciriculum can be enhanced by a good or great instructor. Conversely, a good ciriculum can be ruined by a poor instructor.

That's why I believe the standards should be above where they currently are.
 
I have had no desire teach but have taken PADI certification all the way up to Assistant Instructor and enjoyed it all with some side certifications as well like Ice Diver. The knowledge you gain is invaluable, true you may not use some of it but if you use one bit to save you or some one else it was well worth it. You can also pass your wisdom on to others, always great to be as safe as you can be! Knowledge in diving leads to a safer diver.
Well that is my 2 cents anyway! :idea3:
 
Dutchman, only you can decide when you are going to invest in your hobby. From a divers perspective---the AOW C-card will tell dive boat operations that you can handle yourself on difficult dives. This is really important if you plan on doing difficult dives. If you take the Florida Keys for example, if you want to do a dive on the Duanne, expect to be atleast AOW. The conditions are 1) bad currents 2) low vis 3) deep 4) possible penetration. While you might be capable of each of these, it will be difficult to prove that to the dive boat---let's face it, log books can be forged.

When I teach advanced class I approach it as an opportunity for my students to learn their limits under my watchful eye. The class is also a great place to start learning Scuba hobbies such as photography--this prevents you from investing hundreds to thousands of dollars in an UW camera before you ever try it.

From a dive store's perspective--most AOW certified divers will make a major equipment purchase. This is important because in most markets there is very little margin built into the classes, but the equipment manufactors will demand crazy margins in their equipment. I dive store will struggle if classes represent the majority of their gross income.

Personally I am a boat owner that can go anywhere I want, and you might be too, but for my own liability I will not take out divers that are not AOW. I want to know that my own dive buddy is capable of helping me should something bad happen--that and when I dive on my own boat it is usually under less than teaching conditions often involving spearguns or uncharted dive spots.
 
Dive Operations are in business for money!!!!!!!! Without an income, the instructors couldn't afford to teach, the owner couldn't afford to live or pay rent. Realize that if you want a cheap sport, get a canoe, this is Scuba Diving. Every single bit of equipment that you go cheap on is considered life support equipment.
 
I have had no desire teach but have taken PADI certification all the way up to Assistant Instructor and enjoyed it all with some side certifications as well like Ice Diver. The knowledge you gain is invaluable, true you may not use some of it but if you use one bit to save you or some one else it was well worth it. You can also pass your wisdom on to others, always great to be as safe as you can be! Knowledge in diving leads to a safer diver.
Well that is my 2 cents anyway! :idea3:
 

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