Advance Open Water Certification

[jbichsel]

I disagree with the idea of combining all 3 into a single certification. I see an advantage to having an interval between each course in order to get some diving experience. This makes the next course in the sequence more meaningful, since you have more of a foundation to build on. One of the most important things taught in all the courses is to stay well within your limits. I also disagree that "hardly anyone I know follows that (60' limit) once they get a few dives in." Maybe that depends on where you dive, here in California at Catalina Island as an example most of the sites and things to see are above 60' anyway.

I believe that the current level of OW certification is inadequate. Even when compared to my OW cert in 1989, things have eased up. Couple this with instructors that I have seen taking shortcuts and being less than thorough and the beginning diver is less than prepared.

Take the scenario of two newly certified OW divers at 60' and one has an OoA, knock off his/her buddies mask and the diver freaks, equipment problem, etc. How well prepared are either one of them?

If not combining OW, AOW and Rescue, how about requiring more dives for each level and getting more of the Rescue into OW and AOW?

How about a requirement to have a certain number of dives after OW in order to take the AOW course? And then a certain number of dives after the course in order to actually get the AOW card?

I'm all for that. I think the number of dives for EVERY level of cerification is too low. Instructor included.

Right now we have some DIT's that show every imaginable level of diving competancy. There is one in particular that I am going to have a serious discussion with our Course Director about. His skills remind me of someone on their final OW cert dive. Not good for someone wanting to be a DM.

My point being that all agencies have succumbed to the "I want it now" attitude of society and, just like our national education system, have lowered the standard to a level that I think, does not meet good standards for our sport.

The soap box is now open.

 

[TSandM]

Yeah...I just love diving with people who have done OW, PPB, AOW, Nav, and Rescue...and that accounts for 98% of their dives. Badge chasers scare the hell outta me.

Would you rather dive with me straight out of OW? Or do you want some other non-instructor person to take the risk of diving with me first? At least if I've got all the "badges", you have some idea of how many dives I've done and with what type of companionship/supervision. And all the risks of diving with a newbie have been assumed by instructors . . .

 

[Damselfish]

Would you rather dive with me straight out of OW? Or do you want some other non-instructor person to take the risk of diving with me first? At least if I've got all the "badges", you have some idea of how many dives I've done and with what type of companionship/supervision. And all the risks of diving with a newbie have been assumed by instructors . . .

There's 2 types of people with "badges" but not much other diving. Some realize they still have lots to learn (sounds like you.) Most folks enjoy diving with these people and helping them along. Then there's others that get AOW and think it really means they are advanced, when truely they have no clue. I think they were talking more about the latter.

 

[TheRedHead]

Would you rather dive with me straight out of OW? Or do you want some other non-instructor person to take the risk of diving with me first? At least if I've got all the "badges", you have some idea of how many dives I've done and with what type of companionship/supervision. And all the risks of diving with a newbie have been assumed by instructors . . .

There are a contigent of people here who have experience and few, if no, advanced certifications who have been overly scrutinized by less experienced DMs and have, as a consequence, leveled scorn upon those who take advanced classes without experience. There are so many different POVs here regarding classes. Obviously, the more diving situations you can experience, with or without a an instructor, the better off you are.

Some people find cost a factor - and of course the POV that the PADI money-grubbers should be held up to a high standard of ridicule. I found the $250 a trivial amount since I did my classes in the Carribean where I would have paid almost as much for the equivalent number of boat dives. And then there are some who level scorn upon warm-water wussies like me.

From reading your journal, I'm surprised that you are taking Boat Diving in Maui. You can pick up all you need to know in a couple of actual boat dives. They don't teach you the things you really need to know: don't vomit in the marine head; vomit on the leeward side of the boat; never touch a boat ladder until you are fully prepared to ascend same; stand straight up in order to get your tank out of the cup holders; it is better to don your fins before strapping yourself in your BC because you can't bend over because your tank is stuck in the cup holder thingy.

Anyone who is bifocal age would benefit from a Nitrox class. I think it was the most informative class I've taken. Since you are also a pursuer of knowledge above and beyond the minimal most divers seek, I would reccomend it. And for knowledge outside of the agency sanctioned literature read The Certified Diver's Handbook: The Complete Guide to Your Own Underwater Adventures by Clay Coleman and - even if you have no interest in diving wrecks - Primary Wreck Diving Guide by Gary Gentile. Gentile is very entertaining and offers some unique advice on thermal modification and drysuits which would be useful in diving your local sites. He has a wonderful sense of humor and I think you would like his writing style.

Have a safe trip and I hope you are so blown away by what you see that you will relax and just enjoy diving without worrying about doing a feet first ascent in your drysuit.

 

[Damselfish]

From reading your journal, I'm surprised that you are taking Boat Diving in Maui. You can pick up all you need to know in a couple of actual boat dives. They don't teach you the things you really need to know: don't vomit in the marine head; vomit on the leeward side of the boat; never touch a boat ladder until you are fully prepared to ascend same; stand straight up in order to get your tank out of the cup holders; it is better to don your fins before strapping yourself in your BC because you can't bend over because your tank is stuck in the cup holder thingy.

Also, if the tank is bungied in the holder, remove the bungie before putting your reg on the tank, else you will wind up with the boat bungied to your back and it's hard to dive that way. I've heard this called the "Bungie Diver" specialty. (And hook the bungie back around the reg after it's set up so it doesn't crash on your feet!)

True, boat diving has never struck me as a meaty enough topic to make it worth paying for a specialty, but if it's not much more than the charter anyway it doesn't hurt, I'm sure you will pick up some good tips that weren't obvious. You do pick up a lot of the same info just by diving different boats, hearing the boat briefings, and watching others. Some stuff is general but a lot is specific to individual boats and conditions.

 

[1RUSTYRIG]

Would you rather dive with me straight out of OW? Or do you want some other non-instructor person to take the risk of diving with me first? At least if I've got all the "badges", you have some idea of how many dives I've done and with what type of companionship/supervision. And all the risks of diving with a newbie have been assumed by instructors . . .

I would rather dive with an OW diver who actually dove "OPEN" water for his/her cert than someone who is badge chasing his way to AOW or DM in a lake.

While I was living in Northern California I was always amazed at how many people got certed in Folsom lake...it's only a 2 hour drive to Monterey. One of those people was my wife. It took a lot of dives to get her used to blue water, boats, etc.. A real disservice on the part of her instructor if you ask me. But that is another topic.

 

[garyfotodiver]

This is why I like the SSI philosophy and training. Take your four courses after OW, but you need 24 logged dived before you get the AOW card. The experience is what counts, as well as working with a good instructor. I really like my instructor; I drive 120mi. roundtrip to take courses with him.

Eventually, most of us dive on our own. We are responsible for our own dive plan, rigging our gear, making our safety stops, etc. Experience counts!

 

[Dutchman]

Wow, I really opened a can of worms here. I appreciate all your discussion. The point made and lets go dive.

 

[TSandM]

Thanks, everybody, for the boat tips! Since I can barely stand up with my own gear on my back, I'm sure that adding the weight of the boat would be a real impediment. And I'm excited to learn that I can put my fins on BEFORE all the rest of my gear, as fin-fitting is one of my significant shore-diving challenges.

 

[joeabroad]

All I can say is, that at 30 dives, all in the ocean, some from boats, some from shore, some in warm water, some in cold, and about to do finish AOW, I feel very much an inexperienced diver with a lot to learn. Low intermediate, at best. And it's already starting to make me feel very nervous when I see other divers staring at their gear trying to remember how they're supposed to put it together.

I think I should have been trained back in the 70s, because I truly feel that OW course I had was perfunctory, at best. Of course, I should have thought of that 30 years ago.