rjack321:
I don't disagree. Just trying to balance out the thread so people have both side.
A very bad week in Florida
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I don't disagree. Just trying to balance out the thread so people have both side.
rjack321:
Ugh.. Didn't see this before I posted.
After reading both versions, I find it hard to simply take your interpretation of events at face value.
Regardless, if your buoyancy issues were anything like those described (you even admit to the hand plant, a life threatening error in a cave), it sounds as if you need remedial work and should have never gotten your intro card.
Regardless, if your buoyancy issues were anything like those described (you even admit to the hand plant, a life threatening error in a cave), it sounds as if you need remedial work and should have never gotten your intro card.
Well, I can't say for sure who's telling the truth here (I have a REAL strong hunch though) but I've seen enough hand and face prints in the silt in Florida caves to know that some instructor is taking divers like that in caves. Maybe we just found out who.
JimC
Contributor
loosebits:
On a completely unrelated note, if a silt out is a life threatening problem in a cave, you shouldn't be diving in them.
PerroneFord
Contributor
MikeFerrara,
Would you agree that if a student is not up to spec, you don't take them in a cave, you don't dress them down, and you give them at least a partial refund on their money and ask them to come back when they are prepared?
I've taken classes I was not ready for. And it's tough. But I was never demeaned. I either finished the course at a lower level, or agreed with the instructor that I was not prepared to finish the course.
Not being able to complete a valve-drill really should be a show stopper for any technical class, but particularly an overhead as gas failure could easily cause you to lose ALL your gas if you can't reach that isolator.
Would you agree that if a student is not up to spec, you don't take them in a cave, you don't dress them down, and you give them at least a partial refund on their money and ask them to come back when they are prepared?
I've taken classes I was not ready for. And it's tough. But I was never demeaned. I either finished the course at a lower level, or agreed with the instructor that I was not prepared to finish the course.
Not being able to complete a valve-drill really should be a show stopper for any technical class, but particularly an overhead as gas failure could easily cause you to lose ALL your gas if you can't reach that isolator.
While I may have overstated the seriousness for effect, someone who is unable to control his buoyancy and is causing low-viz conditions is a hazard to the safety of everyone else in the cave hense the stress on anti-silting techniques and proper buoyancy control in cave training.JimC:
in_cavediver
Contributor
Perrone,
Personally, I would say if a student isn't up to spec, they get what training they can and will do them the most good, even if it is not what they paid for. In this case, it appears the instructor came from overseas - hard to give a refund. I think OW training covering the basics would have been in order or perhaps cavern/intro refresher. Since I wasn't there, I won't pass judgement on either party. (but I am with Mike on the less hand/face prints in the silt, cmon folks! One dive, I saw 2 divers kneeeling in the silt taking photos 300 feet in upper orange grove)
As for the dressing down, well sometimes there are people who really need to hear exactly where they stand without some politically correct methods. In a rec OW class, that is few and far between. In a Mix or Cave class, it could be more frequent and important. Without actually being there to hear what was said or for what reasons, I won't pass judgment on either party.
Mike
Personally, I would say if a student isn't up to spec, they get what training they can and will do them the most good, even if it is not what they paid for. In this case, it appears the instructor came from overseas - hard to give a refund. I think OW training covering the basics would have been in order or perhaps cavern/intro refresher. Since I wasn't there, I won't pass judgement on either party. (but I am with Mike on the less hand/face prints in the silt, cmon folks! One dive, I saw 2 divers kneeeling in the silt taking photos 300 feet in upper orange grove)
As for the dressing down, well sometimes there are people who really need to hear exactly where they stand without some politically correct methods. In a rec OW class, that is few and far between. In a Mix or Cave class, it could be more frequent and important. Without actually being there to hear what was said or for what reasons, I won't pass judgment on either party.
Mike
PerroneFord:
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PerroneFord:
Of course that's the proper way to deal with the situation.
And you don't post details of your student's performance on the web.
That bothers me almost as much as taking a student into a cave multiple times when they don't have the skills required for a safe learning experience. Talk about bad judgement.
Missdirected
Contributor
Stephen Ash:
Absolutely not. If you are a mentor and good teacher, you do not involve yourself to the point it is mud slinging. Very, very, poor actions on the instructor's part.
Stephen Ash:
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