A FB friend posted his brother died today in Ginnie Springs

[MMM]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Apparently some people missed my previous moderation comment that I had removed some snarky comments. Just now, I had to remove several more. This is not the place for bickering. You may disagree with someone's theories or point of view, but must do so respectfully. Further such behaviour may result in more assertive forms of moderation, up to and including loss of posting privileges. Marg, SB Senior Moderator

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[gianaameri]

The standard mix at CCDS is 30%. None of the shops I know bank their O2 percentage based on narcosis issues. You simply saying repetitively that experienced divers dive nitrox to reduce narcosis doesn't make it so.

My statement of fact is that DIR and experienced cave divers dive N32 and not air for a 100' cave dive.

Air for a 100' cave dive is uncommon. Even more uncommon is carrying backmount N30 and Alu80 Air for a 100' dive (I'd make all my gas the same, all N30 or preferably all N32).

 

[ScubaSteve]

So, if I die and somebody says my buddies told him that my tank came from a flying pig and a few people repeat it on the internet it automatically makes it true?

Well I have read on the internet about some guy sucking on a donkey fart to make it to the surface so your story of the flying pig seems plausible.

But seriously, you are trying to force a conspiracy where there is no conspiracy. The buddy's confirmed it. This was confirmed to people that have been VERY close to this incident. They spoke of things first hand in these threads. The only thing that will settle you down is if Carlos were to appear in this thread and make a statement. Sadly, that is not going to happen. It is impossible to impress upon you the errors in your ways so I for one will simply stop trying. I am sure a couple others will keep up the good fight.

 

[gianaameri]

Well I have read on the internet about some guy sucking on a donkey fart to make it to the surface so your story of the flying pig seems plausible.

But seriously, you are trying to force a conspiracy where there is no conspiracy. The buddy's confirmed it. This was confirmed to people that have been VERY close to this incident. They spoke of things first hand in these threads. The only thing that will settle you down is if Carlos were to appear in this thread and make a statement. Sadly, that is not going to happen. It is impossible to impress upon you the errors in your ways so I for one will simply stop trying. I am sure a couple others will keep up the good fight.

Jim Wyatt wrote on an internet forum that he was 50 feet away from Carlos and his buddies and he did not personally witness any conversation between Carlos and his buddies pre-dive.

Also, it appears Jim Wyatt spoke after the incident to the buddies concurrently, both buddies at the same time.

SOP in an accident investigation is for the police to separate the witnesses and interview them concurrently, but separately one form the other, different policemen taking the witness statements.

I am not suggesting there is any "conspiracy" - but given that it is odd for me to imagine Carlos taking from Canada to Florida a bottle of Alu80 with Air for a 100' cave dive together with backmount N30 (I would have imagined him to carry Alu80 N30 with his N30 backmount, same/similar mix), I am wondering if it would be "out-of-character" or "in-character" for Carlos to do what he allegedly did (hence my questions).

Other than Jim Wyatt who is not a witness, is there anybody else you refer to who actually witnessed the scene (i.e. "VERY close to this incident"?

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

Ok big G,

I will concede that if I owned a fill station that is capable of blending Nitrox mixes in Canada and I then decided to fill a tank to drive down to Ginnie (a huge drive) then the following could be said;

I am unlikely to fill back gas with 30% and my stage with air. The risk of bends in the Devils Cave System is higher cause of the physical exertion compared to other dives. So I would not plan my dive here with air.

I also would not intentionally fill a tank marked oxygen with air.

I always test my tank's O2 content just prior to a dive, even if they had air in them yesterday and haven't been touched.

Long and short of it, air in Ginnie is an unusual dive plan, but it is a workable dive plan and is not what caused the accident. Mismanagement of O2 tanks caused the problem.

 

[gianaameri]

Mismanagement of O2 tanks caused the problem.

If you mean that Carlos did breathe from the wrong regulator, it is a very plausible explanation and I believe it given the tank was marked O2 and it did contain O2.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

He shouldn't have had O2 with him after he tied into the gold line. No point in taking O2 into that cave. Whether he thought he had air in an O2 tank, or staged (forgot to stage) the wrong tank is speculation. Any of these scenarios is actually a little bit bizarre.

Bottom line; he was on O2 when he shouldn't have been and shouldn't have had it with him.

 

[nimoh]

I am sure a couple others will keep up the good fight.

nailed that one too

 

[Dr. Lecter]

a safer and more prudent gas choice approach to 100'/30 meter cave diving (i.e. using Nitrox

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Is it possible that given the length of the planned exposure, starting on a leaner stage mix (i.e., air) would be beneficial for the O2 clock?

 

[imasinker]

It would be relevant as a new piece of information because we have no concrete evidence to date to corroborate the story circulating on the net that Carlos travelled from Canada with a bottle of Air (i.e. which was marked O2 and actually contained O2...) for his planned cave dive at Ginnie.

At least if somebody said, "Yes, I trained him to dive Air to 100' in a cave and he regularly did...", then, maybe, it would make the story of the foreigner from Canada going cave diving to Florida with an Alu80 of Air marked O2 and actually containing O2 a bit more realistic/stronger/credible.

Actually we do....

He brought the tank ( the 02 ) thinking it was the air filled ... and doubles he used from Canada with his family on vacation..FACT!
the tank was filled with 98 % as per Jim Wyatt......Fact
So there is the concrete evidence and the Facts........

Now I have had enough of your bashing...He was my best friend...he made the mistake and FOR THE LAST TIME...No one needs to say they trained him to prove anything. He wasn't a foreigner...he was a NACD member and a Canadian.. Have some respect.....

It this story, is realistic ...it happened, stop with the silly assed banter..Do you really feel good about yourself ?..