A different take on Master Scuba Diver

[BoltSnap]

@Leatherboot69 , I'm not criticizing you, but rather instructors who should do us all a favor and stop teaching like the people who liked/bullseyed your comment.

You have no idea how I teach, so why do you criticize me like this? Do you enjoy being mean and rude?

He ran out of people to insult and fight with, he is now chasing people who register a reaction on a post without any understanding or a clue on their backgrounds or what they do or think. Simple and clear examples of bullying and character assassination that are totally uncalled for nor provoked. Very low indeed.

He pretty soon will be fighting with his own shadow after he runs out of people to insult and fight with.

 

[Marie13]

We did a Discover Scuba Dive earlier this summer, which was what prompted me to get back into diving (having got to RD and then not dived for several years) and my girlfriend to do her OW. It wasn’t much training at all. I think it felt safe though-we were taught some minimum safety skills (mask clearance, a few other things) and we dived slowly along a shore reef at about 4m along an out and back route for half an hour, two of us and a DM. My gf didn’t know how to fin so spent a lot of time trying to ‘walk’ in mid-water, and she bolted for the surface at one point. From a safety perspective I wasn’t concerned because we were (deliberately) so shallow. I’d be interested to hear yours and others’ opinions though, although do bear in mind it was a DSD and nothing more. Subsequently she’s found her OW course and the confined water dives have ‘worked’ for her in building her confidence, as someone who didn’t take to it naturally (like a duck to water lol). Of course, it’s only one anecdote though.

There’s also the factor that she needs to reach required standards and demonstrate certain skills in order to pass, and the school we have been using seems to be pretty professional in that and other regards. When I did my Deep specialty last weekend with the same school, I understood that although I only had to reach a basic standard, I wouldn’t get a ‘hospital pass’. Again, I know this is one anecdote and one school.

I did a pool DSD (that’s how they’re done in the Midwest) summer 2016. Inspired by a friend who dived. Enjoyed it enough I did my OW cert, finishing Oct 2016. I was scared and not that comfortable in the water, but wanted to do it since I could get to see my beloved Great Lakes shipwrecks. Did my first shallow wreck dives in 2017. I got full cave in August and I’m in the midst of CCR training. It can be done by someone not originally a good candidate, but you’ve got to grit your teeth and just be stubborn.

 

[The Chairman]

Sorry this is so long...

It is a criticism of every instructor that perpetuates it (like those who liked/bullseyed your response).

Caveat emptor. You're blaming a lot of instructors for students who looked for the easiest/cheapest way to get certified and got what they were looking for. I don't go to McDonalds and rail against their chefs that they are ruining the culinary arts. YGWYPF. You Get What you pay for. If you want a five-star meal, go to a five-star restaurant. Sometimes McDonalds makes sense. Sometimes I want to indulge with Red Ginger. Hey, often I prepare my own meals. There are a lot of caveats that go into the decision. Some people don't have the inclination, time, or money to take a fundies course. Why compel all instructors to teach to that level? Dive and let dive. Teach and let teach.

There were a few times I got a student who was unwilling to learn the fine art of Scuba Diving. I admit to dumbing down what they learned and hoped they never remembered my name if someone were to ask them who taught them. Sigh. Yet, I was confident that they were safe. They didn't dive pretty, but they had a command of the fundamentals that would keep them alive.

To be clear, not only do I believe in neutral training, but I was doing it before it was popular. I was called a liar for posting about that here on SB. Some instructors thought it was impossible and that I had to radically change how they learned. I guess it never occurred to me that it was impossible and that I had to fundamentally change how I cleared a mask. Their coinclusion was that I was lying. They later became proponents and downplay this incident. One now calls me a liar for posting about this. It's ironic, doncha think? People who sought training from me knew I taught differently than most, and I had students fly in from other states and even countries to learn. These were my best students because they were willing to sacrifice for their learning.

It's my opinion that while the instructor makes a dramatic difference in Scuba instruction, a student can only expect to get out of a course what they put into it. I learned flute in 7th grade at Jr High School. On the advice of my teacher, my mother put me into private lessons. Ugh. What a waste of an evening and then she wanted me to go on Saturdays too. Rly? I sucked at playing flute because I didn't put forth any effort. Sure, I could toodle my floodle and march around on the field, but I had no real inclination to become a concert flautist so I hardly ever practiced. I made no conscious effort to improve. Yes, I felt kind of guilty about it for a long time. Where was my commitment? Well, it was elsewhere. You see, I had learned Scuba from the worst instructor in the world. He never got in the water with us! 30 years later I got certified by the second worst instructor in the world. However, he was a caver, so I learned a few skills. I barely made it through my IDC (Instructor Training Course). But I had superior in-water skills and knowledge than many of my trainers. Hey, that's what they said time and time again. But I persevered and my weaknesses gradually became strengths.

So how did I become so proficient despite my horrible instructors? Me. I put in the time. I put in the effort. I listened to every critic (still do) becoming my worst critic. You are only as good as the time and effort you put in. Stop blaming the instructors, gear, or even your buddy. There are a few areas where you really need training: OW, Cavern/Cave, and Rebreathering. I'll even add tech in regards to helium and deco procedures. Yes, there are certain areas where training can speed things up. Getting training can be awesome with the right instructor. Or it can be a nothing burger. That ultimately is on you. Choose wisely. Find the instructors that great divers use... but don't forget that they can't do the dive for you. Nope. How you dive is all on you. I can be perfectly trim and neutral with just a tank strapped to my back? Can you? I can do that with a poodle jacket, a BP&W, or a back inflate. It's not the gear. It's not my instructors. It's all me. Now make it all you!

OK, maybe I'm not so sorry about the length!

 

[The Chairman]

He pretty soon will be fighting with his own shadow after he runs out of people to insult and fight with.

I didn't read any insult there. It's a sad time when criticisms are seen as insults. Egos shouldn't be so fragile as to not be able to accept criticisms real or imagined. Unless you feel you're perfect, you should be reading and digesting every critique, asked for or not. Not all are applicable, but you should still appreciate the fact that someone cared enough to let you know how they feel. Most of us lack the situational awareness to pick up on how we can improve. You can't learn how to do things better if no one criticizes you. You can't sharpen a knife without a bit of abrasion. So stop whining when someone criticizes you and look inward. It's a forum and we want to hear differences of opinions even if it hurts your feelings.

We have a rule about agency bashing: it's not allowed. You can still criticize any agency. You can still tell us you don't like them and it is even better if you tell us why. If we all agreed on the same things this would be a boring, boring forum. Bashing is telling us an agency is stealing from us or is useless.

 

[tursiops]

I didn't read any insult there. It's a sad time when criticisms are seen as insults.

Criticisms are based on observations, facts, information; he had none. Insults are based on hate and bashing; he has plenty.

 

[tursiops]

We have a rule about agency bashing: it's not allowed. You can still criticize any agency.

But apparently you can bash ALL agencies (except GUE) and it is OK?

 

[The Chairman]

I was scared and not that comfortable in the water,

This is the biggest reason many people don't continue in the sport.

Criticisms are based on observations, facts, information; he had none. Insults are based on hate and bashing; he has plenty.

I didn't read hate or bashing in his post either. Our biggest problem as a community is that we assign motives when people disagree with us or express frustrations. Why do you think he's so upset? Learn from that. I've had frustrated students from time to time and rather than write them off, I tried to deduce why they had those emotions and change things up a bit.

But apparently you can bash ALL agencies (except GUE) and it is OK?

Where did I do such a thing?

I limit my criticisms to agencies I have been an instructor for. That's a personal limit for me, and obviously non-instructors should not be encumbered by this. I can list pros and cons about every agency, but tp what purpose

 

[tursiops]

Where did I do such a thing?

Replace my word "you" with "one." I was using "you" in the all-inbclusive plural. Sorry not to have been clearer. I am referring back to @wetb4igetinthewater's post.

 

[The Chairman]

Replace my word "you" with "one." I was using "you" in the all-inbclusive plural. Sorry not to have been clearer. I am referring back to @wetb4igetinthewater's post.

Ah, not me but the ubiquitous "one".

I don't see his post as a bash. He's frustrated that not everyone is taught to a certain level of mastery, and he's absolutely right. Not all agencies teach the same, nor should they. The same can be said about non-scuba agencies, including colleges and universities. Is his level of teaching required for everyone? Obviously not. But the dropout rate is an indicator of a diver's comfort in the water and a lot of new divers are scared sh!itless and go do something safer. I embraced neutral instruction as a way to create comfortable divers and it's my experience that it works. But then, I only teach a few students at a time while the industry wants to teach up to 8 in a class to make things work financially. It's a catch 22 situation. My agencies have a limit of 8 and my personal limits are half that but I much prefer one or two! Ergo, teach and let teach. It's up to the individual to research and choose the instructor they are comfortable with.

To be clear...,

Differing opinions are allowed!!!
Someone disagreeing with you is not a bash.
Someone criticizing you, an agency, or all agencies is not a bash.
Expressing dislike for any/many agencies, or instructors is not a bash. That includes GUE.
Not liking someone or what they post doesn't make it a bash.​

 

[tursiops]

I don't see his post as a bash.

I'm confused now on what a bash is. If he had named me explicitly instead of referring to "the people who liked/bullseyed your comment" would that have been a bash, or just an insult? It is certainly not a criticism, since it is based on zero information.