A compassionate instructor

[LeadTurn_SD]

Halemano, I love that picture of you and your dad (I've seen you post it before).

Best wishes.

 

[Thalassamania]

...they don't understand how it applies to them.

Terry

Then you best be prepared to not teach anyone under 25, that's a fact of brain growth and development.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Using agency standards as training recommendations is like using the FDA Maximum Food Contaminant Levels as recommendations for cooking. They're limits, not optimal levels.



From my perspective, letting any child into the water with SCUBA gear is a bad move, with or without an instructor.

Young children still think there are monsters under the bed and that Santa-Claus comes down the chimney. They have no concept that holding their breath at the wrong time could be fatal, and although some have a minor grasp on the concept of death, they don't understand how it applies to them.

Terry

Thank goodness my 11 yr old finally learned about Santa. I was always conflicted when teaching him about Boyles law and still telling him that if he doesn't believe, Santa won't come to the house...

I think my kid understands about holding his breath as well as he understands that riding his bike into a tree will cause injury.


YouTube - mizpah sept 2009

 

[DCBC]

I'm not going to state this as a hard and fast rule, but somehow holding their breath and embolising seems to be an adult phenomena.

Compressed air AGE occurs in adults simply because children are not generally breathing compressed air underwater. They are however equally susceptible to AGE as adults as there physiology is the same. Clinically, children as young as 7 months old have died of air embolism in a hospital setting.

It reminds me of a story... he took a dog from the Harvard Dog Lab down in the "wandering bell" at the Submarine Escape Training Tower at the New London Submarine Base and tossed the dog out. The dog made it to the surface without any problem.

When it comes to air embolism, sheep interestingly enough, appear to have more in-common with man than dogs do. There is ample evidence available that both have experienced air embolism in scientific testing. Journal of Clinical Pathology, Relevance of postmortem radiology to the diagnosis of fatal cerebral gas embolism from compressed air diving. A J Cole, D Griffiths, S Lavender, P Summers, K Rich and Western Journal of Medicine, Experimental Pulmonary Air Embolism in Dogs
Charles C. Wycoff and John E. Cann.

Standards are there so that adequate guidance is provided for non-experts to be able to make the "good" decisions, not necessarily "best" decisions. Standards are sometimes there because someone wrote them, nothing more, the mere existance of a standard, especially a propriatary standard, does not meam that the author(s) posses any comprehension of, "the summation of diving experience."

I would define a standard as a recognized model of excellence. Legally it establishes a standard of care or reference point, against which other things can be evaluated. It is applied not solely to "non-experts" but to everyone.

As an Instructor, you are held to those standards outlined by your certification organization. In this case I'm sure you will agree that the Instructor concerned, failed to adhere to the standard which he was expected to uphold.

 

[DCBC]

You must be new here ... there are things I simply don't post on ScubaBoard anymore because I got tired of being judged by all the 50-dive "experts".

The OP (in his original post) expected negative comments. He made the choice to make the post.

My objection is not against the Father. He can ask a transport driver to teach his 11 year-old to drive an 18 wheeler and let him get behind the wheel and head on out to the Interstate if he likes. Personally, I wouldn't put my son in that situation, but that's another discussion.

It is the SCUBA Instructor that's in the wrong here! Perhaps I value the Instructor's role more than most. When it comes to students, people put their safety into the Instructor's hands. If the Instructor wants to teach and be insured under the auspices of a given organization, s/he has the legal & moral responsibility to hold to the guidelines and standards of that organization. One cannot do what they want free of any responsibility for their actions.

In diving, people get hurt; it's not some big joke. In life its been my experience that if you act irresponsibly, it's just a matter of time before it bites you in the *ss.

 

[DCBC]

Liability does not come from simply injury, it comes from neglegent practice with respect to a duty. I see no problem here, unless the equipment that was provided was defective in some fashion.

I do; the Instructor provided the equipment and consented to it's use by an unqualified diver who was supervised by an unqualified diving leader. This was happening during his pool session, for which he was responsible. The fact that the Instructor had no control of the situation, is contrary to standards. This would prove to be a negligent act, should an injury occur.

 

[DCBC]

I despise PADI and SSI since I have dived with them and I loathe the pump out cert card ideas that a lot of instructors have. As long as he meets the standards, he passes and gets his cert. follow the standards. standards standards standards thats all I tend to hear from these people and I thoroughly disagree.

PADI historically has had the lowest standards in the industry. Instructors must insure that the minimum standards are met. This does not mean that the Instructor cannot teach more. In situations where Instructors do not insist that minimums are met(like in this case) I can't be excited by how compassionate the Instructor is..

...lets say a very very experienced diver who knows a thing or two about rescue but isnt a certified professional to supervise a young diver wannabe in a shallow pool? Yes this is a what if question but I'm just wondering if your penchant for standards will disallow this since its technically incorrect.

How about the lifeguard regulations of the pool? In most locations in Canada, the Instructor's rating allows the Instructor to hold a class without on-deck pool lifeguards (if the divers are under his direct supervision). Do you think an uncertified professional meets this standard? If so, based on what criteria? Should the Instructor or Dive Shop renting the pool be concerned about this (liability)?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Also I'm not sure about Washington where I am now, but Ontario where I'm from had a Good Samaritan Law (not the Seinfeld type )

Washington most definitely has a Good Samaritan Law ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Web Monkey]

Then you best be prepared to not teach anyone under 25, that's a fact of brain growth and development.

I'm OK with 16. "Old enough to learn to drive" is close enough.

Terry

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The OP (in his original post) expected negative comments. He made the choice to make the post.

Of course ... and in time (perhaps this time) he will learn to simply not discuss things that might elicit controversy on this board ... like I did.

In diving, people get hurt; it's not some big joke. In life its been my experience that if you act irresponsibly, it's just a matter of time before it bites you in the *ss.

Not knowing all the details ... and not knowing the child ... the OP didn't really give us enough information to determine whether or not this was an irresponsible act. There's been a awful lot of assuming in this thread, and ... well ... we all know about assume.

Might it be that this father knows his child better than we do? Well enough, perhaps, to have decided that he could handle the responsibility of using scuba equipment in a pool ... under the supervision of a parent who, in all likelihood, knows more about scuba diving than a significant percentage of diving instructors out there today?

Looking back to my childhood, some of my best memories are of things I did that most parents would never consider allowing their kids to do today. In hindsight I guess it's best if we protect our children and don't allow them to experience these things ... after all, it's much safer to let them grow fat sitting in front of a TV or Xbox all day ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)