1962 Voit ad - but that positioning...

[scrane]

When I can get away with it I breathe fairly deep and slow, so I might not take full advantage of venturi.. I've gotten used to my breathing/ buoyancy hysteresis so I remain pretty stable. I always seem to be pretty close to cracking pressure. One of my problems with DH is I that I tend to dive close to the reef with my head low and my fins higher to stay out of trouble. I think you mentioned once that you generally trim out slightly head up. ?
I'm glad you mentioned where perceived breathing effort is generated. This subject is very interesting. The old center of lung notion always seemed strange to me. The point where I seem to feel the control of my breathing is at the back of my throat, probably at the epiglottis.

 

[Luis H]

When I can get away with it I breathe fairly deep and slow, so I might not take full advantage of venturi.. I've gotten used to my breathing/ buoyancy hysteresis so I remain pretty stable. I always seem to be pretty close to cracking pressure. One of my problems with DH is I that I tend to dive close to the reef with my head low and my fins higher to stay out of trouble. I think you mentioned once that you generally trim out slightly head up. ?
I'm glad you mentioned where perceived breathing effort is generated. This subject is very interesting. The old center of lung notion always seemed strange to me. The point where I seem to feel the control of my breathing is at the back of my throat, probably at the epiglottis.

When I am swimming/ traveling/ traversing, yes. But not when I am taking pictures, which I do often. I also follow the profile of the reef.

When I am looking forward, the back of my throat should be close to level with the regulator can, but that is only when I am moving "horizontal".

 

[Rose Robinson]

The modified Trieste is not a bad option as a starter DH regulator, but it does have some trade-off.

Here is a link to the can conversion.
http://www.thescubamuseum.com/products/FX trieste titan precut cans.htm

If you do a search for the Pegasus project in VintageDoubleHose, you will see some write ups I did when I was developing the conversion of the Voit Titan single hose into a double hose regulator (the Titan has the same body as the Trieste). The Trieste was already a double hose regulator, so the only conversion was changing the can to get the mechanical advantage of the large diaphragm.

The final regulator ends up as a reasonable good performing regulator. No real compromise when it comes to performance.

The two compromises are the LP (and a bit of interference with the HP port) and at the time for service the first stage balancing chamber is a bit of an issue. Both of these issues have solutions. Some of the solutions are more elegant than others.

Both the LP and HP ports are on the right side and are fairly close to each other. Having the SPG on the right side is not the modern standard, but getting used to it is not a big deal. A bigger issue is that you only have one standard LP port and there is not enough space for most multi-port adapters.

There is a large LP port on the left side that could be used for an LP inflator, but it would require an adapter that is almost impossible to find or have one machined. I have a friend that has made a few of them.

I can send you some pictures of some of the LP port solutions from some of my Pegasus prototypes.

The solutions for the first stage service parts are probably not a concern for a few years. We can come back to that later.



I like the enthusiasm that you have for DH. But be aware that DH are a bit different.

Ideally to get started with a DH is to try it with someone that can show you how to use it. It is not hard, but some new divers may get frustrated early due to the differences. If you are near Vancouver, we have a good friend who is a very good DH diver and vintage scuba collector that maybe could help you, but I guess traveling is not an option at this moment.

If you are going to try it on your own, you want to read a lot and spend some time in a pool getting used to it and playing with it.

Hello Luis,

Thank you for your response, and knowledge.

Unfortunately, what I would want in a regulator of this type is no longer available, as it appears that the firm Vintage Double Hose, who is/was the creator of these modern up-grade parts/systems is no longer available to provide these components.

I visited the web site yesterday, it appears dormant, outdated and out of stock of their mainstay items.

Rose.

 

[Luis H]

Bryan is still around and as far as I know will be making more Argonauts and Phoenix. The pattern that I have seen is that he often has them available during the winter, but you have to keep checking because they sell quick. It is a very small company so he can only make them in batch, and I don't know how many makes at time.

All I can say is that if you are really interested, you are going to need to be patient. This is not an impulse buy type of item.

 

[scrane]

I just received a parts order from VDH a couple of days ago. The Phoenix had been out of stock for a while but two showed up a couple of weeks ago and disappeared quickly. If you can latch onto a Phoenix I would buy it if you are genuinely interested in diving double hose on a practical level. Also get a HPR and a DSV which seem to have good availability. The basic Aquamasters are easy to come by on ebay and the bits and pieces are relatively common. Of course, if you can find a new or used Kraken life becomes a lot simpler. Obviously, this part of the hobby requires some commitment. As a medium long term project DH regs can be a lot of fun.
Contact Bryan at VDH via contact info at his site and he should be able to give you good advice. Patience is required.

 

[Scuba Lawyer]

Vintage Double Hose is very much alive and well! I received an order 2 weeks ago, and Bryan shipped another order to me yesterday. Luis is correct that VDH makes the large ticket items in batches, sells those and then reorders the components for the next batch. Bryan is the consumate professional and oversees every aspect and quality control of his small business. He does that in addition to having a very demanding real-world job. I know he was experiencing some supply issues due to Covid-19 but have every faith and confidence he will re-stock when he is able to do so. There is no such thing as instant gratification in vintage diving. I have waited a year to find and obtain specific parts I need for a vintage reg rebuild - searching all the known vintage suppliers plus Craigslist, NextDoor, LetGo and newspaper classifieds around the world. In fact, I just secured a diaphragm from a fellow in Canada for my rebuild of a 1956 DivAir Model F. Patience and you will obtain whatever your heart desires.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

When I can get away with it I breathe fairly deep and slow, so I might not take full advantage of venturi.. I've gotten used to my breathing/ buoyancy hysteresis so I remain pretty stable. I always seem to be pretty close to cracking pressure. One of my problems with DH is I that I tend to dive close to the reef with my head low and my fins higher to stay out of trouble. I think you mentioned once that you generally trim out slightly head up. ?
I'm glad you mentioned where perceived breathing effort is generated. This subject is very interesting. The old center of lung notion always seemed strange to me. The point where I seem to feel the control of my breathing is at the back of my throat, probably at the epiglottis.

I have a diagram that shows visually the difference in tank positioning in the water column and the center of the lungs. I'll look it up on my other computer and post it here. This diagram comes from Bill Barada in his book, Let's Go Diving, produced by U.S. Divers Company in 1962 (4th printing, November 1965).

SeaRat

 

[John C. Ratliff]

There is one other option no one has yet mentioned to get all the LP and HP ports you. Red, without having to do it on the double hose regulator, and that is to have a twin post double manifold. I have this Sherwood manifold, and it allows the use of both a single hose regulator and a double hose regulator. Twin tanks also position the regulator better on the back, between the shoulder blades.

Sherwood Two Regulator Manifold Twin Double 2 Tank 8 1/4" Spread Scuba Cave Dive | eBay

The photo below shows me getting ready for a dive. I'm diving a single stage, two hose regulator, the U.S. Divers Company Overpressure Breathing regulator (the first generation, before the Mistral). I'm also diving a single hose regulator as a backup. Many times, I dive this combination with a BCD inflator too. Note that I'm diving twin low pressure 45 cubic foot tanks (pressure, 1800 psig). With this combination, the double hose regulator is squarely below my head, between my shoulder blades.

SeaRat

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

When I used to watch Sea Hunt the divers used basket harnesses and stainless strap harnesses and the tank would be all over their backs sometimes low sometimes high and sometimes the reg seemed to be above the backs of their heads and the tank all sideways, ???
Whatever works.
When I really got into using my DA Aquamaster at first it was a bit tricky and I used to feel like I was starving for air going head first down during a duck dive, but then as I started getting used to it I learned to roll a little right side up and the reg/mouthpiece was more inline and breathing was fine. I got to where I could do a shore dive off the rocks up here on Norcal with a 72 hiking goat trails and hunting for lingcod with just the tank/j valve double hose strap harness weightbelt, no BC of any kind. It was like jumping in to freedive but the only addition was a tank with a DH loop and that was it.
After a while I didn’t really give a damn about the perfect tank position because I learned to just let the air do the work and stopped trying to force myself to suck air. I was working trying to secure big fish and didn’t have time to worry if the breathing was just right.
I used to get out of the water from a beach dive dragging a 30 lb ling in with that getup and people on shore would look on thinking they were seeing things.

 

[Luis H]

When I used to watch Sea Hunt the divers used basket harnesses and stainless strap harnesses and the tank would be all over their backs sometimes low sometimes high and sometimes the reg seemed to be above the backs of their heads and the tank all sideways, ???
Whatever works.
When I really got into using my DA Aquamaster at first it was a bit tricky and I used to feel like I was starving for air going head first down during a duck dive, but then as I started getting used to it I learned to roll a little right side up and the reg/mouthpiece was more inline and breathing was fine. I got to where I could do a shore dive off the rocks up here on Norcal with a 72 hiking goat trails and hunting for lingcod with just the tank/j valve double hose strap harness weightbelt, no BC of any kind. It was like jumping in to freedive but the only addition was a tank with a DH loop and that was it.
After a while I didn’t really give a damn about the perfect tank position because I learned to just let the air do the work and stopped trying to force myself to suck air. I was working trying to secure big fish and didn’t have time to worry if the breathing was just right.
I used to get out of the water from a beach dive dragging a 30 lb ling in with that getup and people on shore would look in thinking they were seeing things.

Yes, in reality, the basic harness is one of the worst system that can be used with a double hose regulator, but it was the only type of harness that was available on the very early day. Therefore, a lot of vintage equipment divers and collectors think of it as a perfect match pair.

Out of the water, they seem like they are going to work great. But in the water the top of the cylinder and regulator moves all over the place.

The attachment point of the shoulder harness is way too low when it is directly attached to the band on the top of the cylinder.

There is a reason why those type of harness went away as soon as some more appropriate backpacks were available. The "dogbone" backpack was a decent one and there were others. The thin contour backpack was, IMO another good one. The US Divers one was just too fragile. I believe your Freedom plate is somewhat based on the concept of the contour backpacks. but you would know more about that than I do.