1962 Voit ad - but that positioning...

[Rose Robinson]

The reg with the red hoses is the modern Argonaut Kraken.

The one with the yellow hoses is the 1958 Mistral which I restored. The hoses and mouthpiece are new. The regulator cans I cleaned up with an ultrasonic cleaner and some elbow grease. That particular regulator only has one o-ring and three moving parts so pretty simple. Parts are still readily available. What many folks do not realize is that a 1959 USD AquaMaster DH regulator first stage uses pretty much the same parts as a modern Conshelf or Titan. The first stage diaphragm and other parts, and the second stage seat, are actually identical and swapable. While the exterior of regs are new and improved every year to foster sales, they still work on the same basic designs. I have many diaphragm and piston single hose regulators from the 1970's that breathe just as well as a 2020 model. Sure, there have been improvement tweaks over the years, but most regs are the same internally as they were 60 years ago. Shhhh...... that's a secret the dive industry does not want you to know...

Not trying to talk anyone out of buying a new reg. There are some awesome ones out there!

Mark

Hi Mark,

OMG, you are a true master.

I visited thescubamuseum.com

They have some wonderful fully restored pieces, I particularly liked one piece, a two stage regulator, that was given a black ceramic coating, all new parts, in my opinion, very reasonably priced.

Will the existing tank attachment fitting (yoke, I think) fit modern valves. All my tanks have ''Pro Valves'' with the DIN conversion plug.

Also will these regulators be compatible with modern tank pressure. My two sets of double HP steel 80's are 3442 PSI.

I could purchase a pair of aluminum 80's, but that would still be 3000 psi, and there's still the problem with the modern valves fitting the''vintage'' yoke.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Rose.

 

[Scuba Lawyer]

Hi Mark,

OMG, you are a true master.

I visited thescubamuseum.com

They have some wonderful fully restored pieces, I particularly liked one piece, a two stage regulator, that was given a black ceramic coating, all new parts, in my opinion, very reasonably priced.

Will the existing tank attachment fitting (yoke, I think) fit modern valves. All my tanks have ''Pro Valves'' with the DIN conversion plug.

Also will these regulators be compatible with modern tank pressure. My two sets of double HP steel 80's are 3442 PSI.

I could purchase a pair of aluminum 80's, but that would still be 3000 psi, and there's still the problem with the modern valves fitting the''vintage'' yoke.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Rose.

Rose, Rose, Rose,

How I do admire your enthusiasm!

The answer to all of your questions is “maybe.”

If you want a DH regulator that will fit your valves and do fine at a pressure of 3442 psi you need an Argonaut Kraken or a 2-stage DH with a “Phoenix” conversion (look up “Phoenix” on VintageDoubleHose.com)

Otherwise, it is likely a standard vintage yoke’s regulator will not fit on your conversion valves as the valves are likely too wide. There are solutions mind you. Most modern HP yokes will fit on an older DH 2-stage DH reg. Rob at TheScubaMuseum.com can fix you up with that. The older DH regs can handle 3000 psi. The US Navy and the Cousteau team regularly used them on 3000 psi tanks even with the older yokes. Although many folks today want the more sturdy yokes. I have never tried an older DH reg on 3442 tanks. Don’t see why they wouldn’t work (with an updated yoke of course), but I am not sure. I certainly wouldn’t do it with a single stage upstream DH reg (breathing resistance would be highly unpleasant) but a balanced 2-stage DH might be just fine. Others may have more input on this issue than I do and I defer to them.

Also remember that many DH regs do not have ports for a submersible pressure gauge or a low pressure inflator/octopus reg. For a SPG you either have to have a long yoke with a banjo fitting that inserts between the valve and the yoke, or have a tank valve with a built-in HP port. There are adapters that fit on the hookah port of some regulators (those that have hookah ports) to attach a BC hose and/or an octopus reg. Of course, the Argonaut Kraken or a Phoenix-equipped DH reg have all those ports.

As you can see, choosing the right DH reg for you can be quite the daunting process. Those of us with some knowledge of DH regs did not come by that knowledge overnight. I am still learning about them and I’ve only been diving for 53 years at this point. My best suggestion is to read as much as you can on the subject and understand the benefits and limitations of DH regs before acquiring one. Also, ask many questions (as you are doing) on the vintage equipment forum here on SB and on the other forums dedicated to vintage diving such as VDH and VSS.

What I have said is merely a summary. I am sure many folks with much more knowledge than I will be happy to jump into the conversation.

Stay safe,

Mark

 

[herman]

Welcome to the addictive world of DH diving Rose! If you are interested in learning about them and diving one, please join the conversations and by all means ask questions.There are a large number of us restoring and diving the old regs as well as diving the new VDH Argonaut Krakan. If you are interested in diving DH regs, the AK as we know it, is likely the best place to start as it can be equipped with all the modern items you are accustomed to but at the same time, those can be removed and the reg dove in the same manner as any vintage reg. With that experience, moving on to a restored old DH reg is easy.

Mark, a couple of corrections if I may. The HP parts of a DA are not compatible with Conshelf/ Titan parts, the Royal Aquamaster (1965) is where the the HP parts become compatible. Yokes from modern regs are rarely a direct replacement for older DH yokes ( there are a rare few), rather, they have to be modified to fit.

 

[Scuba Lawyer]

Mark, a couple of corrections if I may. The HP parts of a DA are not compatible with Conshelf/ Titan parts, the Royal Aquamaster (1965) is where the the HP parts become compatible.

Ok, I knew there was an "Aqua something or other" with compatability but I was a few years off - thank you for setting it straight.

Yokes from modern regs are rarely a direct replacement for older DH yokes ( there are a rare few), rather, they have to be modified to fit.

Absolutely correct! I bow to the master. What I was thinking was that Rob has some replacement long yokes that can be installed instead of the standard yokes.

 

[Rose Robinson]

Mark, Herman,

Thank you both so very much.

I went on the Vintage Double Hose web site and looked at the Argonaut Kraken.

The operation appears for the most part to be inactive, or maybe even no longer in business.

On another site, I saw what appears to me to be a commemorative model, it was even in a very fancy wood presentation box, with a presentation certificate. A little further research leads me to believe, this regulator is no longer available either.

Am I lost in a forest, looking for Brigadoon?

Rose.

 

[OldBubbles]

Vintage double hose is still in business. I just got parts from him!
From what I understand, it is a hobby/side business, not his "day job."
I am patiently waiting to buy me a Kraken. I hope I get the chance on the next round he makes and sells.

 

[James79]

Mark, Herman,

Thank you both so very much.

I went on the Vintage Double Hose web site and looked at the Argonaut Kraken.

The operation appears for the most part to be inactive, or maybe even no longer in business.

On another site, I saw what appears to me to be a commemorative model, it was even in a very fancy wood presentation box, with a presentation certificate. A little further research leads me to believe, this regulator is no longer available either.

Am I lost in a forest, looking for Brigadoon?

Rose.

VDH is a small, one man operation... He makes the Kraken in small batches, and they are currently sold out. More will get made in the future, I'm sure. In the meantime, they do pop up used occasionally, and part of the design philosophy that went in to them is to use sustainable parts (all the service parts and most other parts are available through 3rd party sources, common to other designs). So even if VDH did go out of business, they would be maintainable... not that I think he will.
Like Mark pointed out, the Phoenix first stage will upgrade a DA Aqua Master to nearly the same point as the Kraken (giving you HP and LP ports, and better max flow than stock). On the lower end, I use a DA Aqua Master that I put a Cyclone first (from VDH) into, basically making it an improved Royal Aqua Master. I added a splitter to the Hookah port, and run an octo and BC hose off that. And my 10 y.o. has a DAAM that I refurbished bone stock that he likes quite a bit.
So there are quite a few options!
Respectfully,
James

 

[Luis H]

VDH is a small, one man operation... He makes the Kraken in small batches, and they are currently sold out. More will get made in the future, I'm sure. In the meantime, they do pop up used occasionally, and part of the design philosophy that went in to them is to use sustainable parts (all the service parts and most other parts are available through 3rd party sources, common to other designs). So even if VDH did go out of business, they would be maintainable... not that I think he will.
Like Mark pointed out, the Phoenix first stage will upgrade a DA Aqua Master to nearly the same point as the Kraken (giving you HP and LP ports, and better max flow than stock). On the lower end, I use a DA Aqua Master that I put a Cyclone first (from VDH) into, basically making it an improved Royal Aqua Master. I added a splitter to the Hookah port, and run an octo and BC hose off that. And my 10 y.o. has a DAAM that I refurbished bone stock that he likes quite a bit.
So there are quite a few options!
Respectfully,
James

Thanks for that post.

 

[James79]

Thanks for that post.

Just quoting the designer... who was he again? lol

 

[Luis H]

I started diving in 1971 with a VOIT DH and tank I bought at a SoCal swap meet. I don’t recall ever giving tank position a second thought. I wish I still had the reg. I never thought about breathing effort in those days at 16yo, guessing I would be unhappy with it today.

Interesting parallel (including years), but I had a Royal Aqua Master that I still own (and I lived in Puerto Rico in 1971). It hasn't been in the water recently, but it can get wet any time.

I didn't give much thought about tank position in the 70's, except for the valve or regulator hitting me on the back of my head was never acceptable, and it is still not acceptable. So I guess by default I have always worn my cylinder kind of low.

Concerning the breathing effort of a regulator, yes it was always a subject of interest. Maybe it was somewhat different discussion than today. I started working and servicing regulator in 1971, and regulator performance was always a selling point. I remember even tinkering with regulators back then to improve performance.