120 with pony VS Dual alum 80's

[Doc Intrepid]

I have been fortunate enough to be hooked up with a LDS that not only teaches, but also promotes TEC diving. These are people that regularly dive 200 to 250 feet. ...Pony bottles can be utilized for many different purposes, not just as redundancy. Educate don't stipulate!

Rec,

The last dive I did was on the St. Augustine on Ted Green's "OC Diver". The Auggie lies between 250 and 260 fsw. I carried a set of E8-130s with TX 15/55 and two "pony bottles" - the first "pony bottle" had EAN50 in it, and the second pure O2.

If I'd had an OOA situation and had gone on either of the two "pony bottles" below their Maximum Operating Depth I would likely have toxed and died.

If I'd gone on the wrong "pony bottle" at my 70' stop I would likely have toxed and died.

We're suggesting that DTB1981 not carry "pony bottles" until he learns more about what "pony bottles" may be used for, and about the gas mix you put inside them. We're not calling them "pony bottles", though, because lots of guys use "pony bottles" filled with air as redundant gas sources....which, as you seem to be aware of, is a different thing entirely.

We're trying to avoid confusion, because it could get someone hurt if they lack experience and understanding. We are precisely "educating, not stipulating".

Regards,

Doc

 

[PerroneFord]

LOL!

You are talking to people on this board that start deco deeper than 250ft! I'd hazard a guess that several who've spoken in this thread have been below 300 many times, and some here perhaps below 400.

But that is of very little issue. The fact is that the original poster is putting himself in harm's way, some very experienced people are telling him he needs more training to do what he wants to do safely, and you are challenging people do a "dive contest".

Stroketastic indeed...

I have been fortunate enough to be hooked up with a LDS that not only teaches, but also promotes TEC diving. These are people that regularly dive 200 to 250 feet.

 

[JeffG]

I'd hazard a guess that several who've spoken in this thread have been below 300 many times, and some here perhaps below 400.

I wouldn't guess that. The below 300 crowd would be pretty small and below 400 would more than likely be a rebreather guy (and none are in this thread that I can see).

 

[WJL]

I just absolutely love "know it alls". My invitation to dive is open to you as well. But bring your own mirror, I am not in the habit of wiping your snotty nose like your mother does.

I know it's short notice, but we just set this up an hour ago. I'm diving with Brando at Union Lake at 7:30 tonight. It's not much of a challenge, especially for a guy with your skills, but at least we're gettin' wet. Anyways, you're welcome to join us if you can make it.

 

[PerroneFord]

I wouldn't guess that. The below 300 crowd would be pretty small and below 400 would more than likely be a rebreather guy (and none are in this thread that I can see).

Hasn't Bowen seen the south side of 400? Yes I know he's not in this thread... The point is the same, as you demonstrate. There are several members posting here that have the requisite skills and experience to offer valuable advice to the poster who originated the thread.

Jeff, I am looking forward to diving with you and Doc one day. I know I can learn a lot from you guys, even if these guys won't. I guess DSAT is in their future.

 

[NC myerssl]

Ok, I normally don't get into these which way is better discussions, but the setup you are asking about is very similar to what I have.

Currently I am using a Genesis Recon BC (similar to the Outback), with a single PST 119 and a 30cf al pony side mounted. I always keep the same gas in the 119 and the pony, (anywhere from 21 to 30%). And my dives range from 60' to 130'.

This works well for me, but I did consider several factors:
- Weight, in saltwater with a 3 mil I'm currently using 3 lbs with this setup. It is positioned on the right side to counter balance the pony which is rigged up on the left. This weight configuration allows me to be nuetrally buoyant with no air in the BC and 500 lbs in the 119.

- Air consumption - know your RMV to plan your dives. Currently averaging .62 RMV so I can do a NDL dive to 130' and still come up with 1000 + lbs. of gas in the 119. I don't require doubles for the dive plan. If your RMV does not permit you to do your dive plan on a single tank, then don't consider it.

- Use the pony as a backup only. That is why I keep the same gas in the pony as I do in the 119.

Last but not least, dive both configurations. Many people prefer the BP/double configuration. But after tuning up my weights/pony config with the Recon, I am just as comfortable in this config.

Good Luck!

 

[Whatgoesdown]

I was certified SSI, but the LDS did not have a clue, and yes they all had more dives than I. Imagine an individual showing the instructor the proper tecnique for clearing a mask with a purge.

Are these the same tech divers who go to 200-250ft? They'd prbably never encountered a mask with a purge, just another piece of plastic to fail. :05:

I always use a pony bottle when diving. On dives below 100 feet the pony bottle contains 40% oxygen. This for my deco stops to help off gas. Re-read your gas charts. Claculate your air consumtion rate and start putting it all together. With a 6 minute deco stop at 10 feet you can add 10 minutes to your bottom time at 140 feet. This may not be important to you but it was to me this past weekend. I wanted the extra 10 minutes. I don't know if this helps you to understand. Pony bottles can be utilized for many different purposes, not just as redundancy. Educate don't stipulate!

Could you let us know a little more about your dive plan for this venture. I was just wondering about bailout. Did you still have enough back gas to perform your stop without accelerated deco? If your buddy was to overexert themself during the dive, suck down their air and need assistance at the maximum depth, were you carrying enough gas to get both of you through your deco obligations? Remember 1/3 of you gas is not yours and you have no right to put it in your dive plan. You cannot encourage somebody to go out and experiment with this stuff on their own, it has to be trained. As with probably all of the voices of reason in this thread, my knowledge comes from hands-on experience and a lot of reading. In many cases, diver deaths have prompted changes in procedures, creating the standards that we apply today and if I can learn from somebody else's mistakes or experience I shall. I won't be accepting your dive "challenge" I will not take responsibility for a buddy whose abilities may be questionable, especially below 200ft!

 

[WaterDawg]

RecDiver,

I belive the misunderstanding comes from these folks says not to breath your BAIL-OUT, using a DECO bottle is not a problem (heck your supposed to!) the problem is that one mans deco bottle is anothers pony.

The folks here can be a lil testy, Id recomend cking out Thedecostop.com they are much nicer there, and probably wont flame you as much.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

The folks here can be a lil testy, Id recomend cking out Thedecostop.com they are much nicer there, and probably wont flame you as much.

Hey man! Ice water. All. Over. The. Keyboard.

Lovely.....

 

[scubafool]

RecDiver,
The folks here can be a lil testy, Id recomend cking out Thedecostop.com they are much nicer there, and probably wont flame you as much.

Now THAT was uncalled for.


I do, however, have a question for you, RecDiver. You have stated that you carry a pony bottle on all dives, above 100' filled with air, below 100' filled with 40%. So from that, I would gather that above 100' you carry the pony for redundancy purposes, and below 100' it is only for deco purposes. So my question is, if you feel a need for redundancy above 100', why do you not want the same redundancy below 100'? From your posts, you quite obviously realize that Nitrox 40 is not a viable option at the deeper depth, & therefore you realize that the redundancy is no longer available to you. It seems to me that if there is a need for a backup gas source above 100', the need for this can only increase below 100'.