10 yr old Wreck Diver

[Paladin]

WHAT!? He was diving UNCERTIFIED!? He can't do that! It isn't allowed! That sort of thing is unthinkable! You can't just...

Wait. I did it for about twelve years. Forget I said anything.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Posted via Mobile Device

 

[NJ to FLA]

I enjoy your videos. Keep 'em comin'!

 

[Mitchell Hamm]

Im by no means knowledgable or skilled, so im not saying anything about the boys diving, cant tell much... im in the middle of my classes, but I dont see the reason why dive uncertified, yeah, being certified is like a drivers license, u can be licensed, but be a horrible driver. In the classes, you learn important skills in emergencies, not much of buoyancy control for me, I dont know what you taught him before you did your FIRST dive. I just dont think that you should dive not being certified. Wreck diving is advanced, i dont knowif he hit anything or whatnot, just hope he didnt, Im a firm believer that we should preserve the 75-85% of our planet whenever we get the chance, let the next person enjoy it. I applaud you teaching your kid to dive at such a young age, i hope he eventually wants to get trim and weight down right, Undoubtedly he will be a great diver one day.

 

[Drewski]

Ya know,

One of the reasons WHY I usually don't hang out in Basic Discussions is because of inane little discussions like this one where pontificating FOOLS seem bound and determined to sell others that THEY are right and everyone else is WRONG. I really, REALLY dislike that attitude. Somehow people posting in this thread have equated a 10 year old diving with child abuse or worse - all to try and "prove" their supposed "point." PATHETIC. Please try growing up and acting just a bit more mature before you BORE the rest of us with your drivel.

So, before you read this, a disclaimer. If you have a 10 year old and are uncomfortable with him or her diving, PLEASE don't take them or force them to go. PLEASE don't coerce them through demonstration and positive (or negative) enticement. Don't let them watch it on TV, read about it in books or talk about it with their friends. Don't read any further and don't consider what I describe below.

That said, a few observations. Young olympic athletes who win gold medals start training at 6 years old or less. They have drive and ambition to succeed and are often placed in risky and high pressure situations. Mozart wrote some of his best work as a kid. Bobby Fischer amazed the world. Tiger Woods won the Junior World Golf Championship 6 times, the first time when he was 8 entering in the 9-10 year old class. Many children enjoy doing difficult or even dangerous stuff that many adults can't or won't do. Does that mean they shouldn't do them? Obviously NOT.

As a NAUI instructor - THAT'S right N-A-U-I, the "old school" guys - I've certified hundreds of people. About 100 of them have been kids between the ages of 10 (GASP!) and 14. NAUI had a 12 year old standard going back to 1975 but allowed instructors to request age exemptions by letter. I did this no less than 5 times and they were always granted. For those of you who knew him, Walt Hendrick approved all of these certifications personally.

What I've learned about young children and diving is that the ones who are serious about it and want to do it become some of the best divers in the world. Unlike adults who often experience fears that cloud judgement, kids look at stuff much more objectively underwater. In truth, there are very FEW things that can harm kids if they know and follow the rules. I've started 5 year olds in my hot tub on very long hoses and I've routinely allowed 6 year olds to pool dive fully geared. I have NO PROBLEM diving with kids in the 10 to 12 year old range within NDLs, to about 100 FT, provided the conditions are right for the kid's experience and they enjoy doing it. The biggest thing to keep in mind is the ADULT, not the child. What is the KID going to do if YOU screw up?

I really can't believe some of the CRAP I've read in this thread from people who don't know what they are talking about. Many of you obviously come from a generation where you were taught to follow rules blindly, never take responsibility for making your own decisions and never independently evaluate circumstances to draw your own conclusions. I'm really sorry my generation did such a BAD job teaching you. Here's a hint: Rules are made to SERVE the people who MAKE them. People should NOT serve the rules!!!

I'll wrap this up with a little history. Philippe Cousteau starting diving at the age of 5. He was diving with his dad routinely by the age of 7. By the time he was 20, he was a world explorer and had more dives in the book than just about everyone reading this thread.

I'm thinking his dad knew what he was doing...

 

[DevonDiver]

Fair points Drewski.

However...

I am concerned about the physiological issues that pertain to the undeveloped structure of a child's body. I say 'concerned', because I do not know how a 100ft dive would effect that. Perhaps someone can clarify what medical facts are relevant to that?

But... for my own risk assessment... I would not take a child diving to those depths until I knew, exactly, what those issues might be.

Also..(and unrelated)... I don't think anyone on this thread made a direct comparison between Dumpster taking his child on a dive...and that this was comparable to child abuse etc. Where the issue of child abuse was raised... was a retort to the general statements made by some posters that parents "were free to do whatever they wanted with their kids". In that respect, it was very much a side issue that spawned from the original debate....and wasn't connected directly with the issue of Dumpster and his son.

I did make the point that; had an accident occured then some authority might want to take legal action against Dumpster on the basis of neglect. The reason for this would be that he (as an educated dive professional) had exceeded the stated diving limitations that apply for minors.

That was just an assumption about the legal repurcussions.... not a personal opinion.

I think it is great that kids now have the opportunity to experience diving at a formative age... and that they have so much more opportunity to ingrain amazing skills and experiences at that stage in their lives. I can only dream of how different my diving would be, if I had learned at the age of 10, rather than at 20.

My only issue in this thread was that the risk assessment carried out by Dumpster seemed inadequate when compared with the widely accepted consus of limitations that exist across the dive industry.

Having said that... I wasn't there. I don't know his son. I haven't seen that wreck. It was Dumpster's risk assessment...and his responsibility. It was his judgment call.... and he is sufficiently experienced as a professional dive instructor to make that call...and to understand the implications attached to it.

I might have made a different call to Dumpster. For me, I would see no need to take a young child to that depth, in those currents and on penetration (no matter how much swiss cheese it was). For sure, I would take my kid diving (I'm not a parent btw), but I would choose a site that more fitted his experience level... and that would give me more opportunity to develop his core skills, whilst providing a role-model of safe, progressive, conservative diving.

 

[JeffG]

I bet dumpsterdiver's son knows more about diving and boat handling than 75% of the people on this board.

Where did he learn it from? Thats what I want to know.

 

[BDSC]

Having said that... I wasn't there. I don't know his son. I haven't seen that wreck. It was Dumpster's risk assessment...and his responsibility. It was his judgment call.... and he is sufficiently experienced as a professional dive instructor to make that call...and to understand the implications attached to it.

And there lies the key. You weren't there, you don't know his son or his abilities or how many dives he had done. You don't know the dad and his skills and how well he has taught his son. And you don't know the site and how easy or difficult it may be on any given day.

So to characterize DD as being "irresponsible," a "bad role model as a father and professional dive instructor", and taking actions that "reeks of stupidity" was way out of line on your part.

Take the blinders off and understand that everything doesn't always have to be "By the Book".

 

[captain]

Where did he learn it from? Thats what I want to know.

No body is as good a diver as you, Jeff, we all know that.
You will have the honor of being the first person I have put on my ignore list

 

[ScubaSteve]

Wear the title proud Jeff