Buying my first regulator

[lowwall]

Mares is less popular with certain groups of divers for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of their regulators, which is at least as good as their primary competitors.

If you look through that old thread you'll see people complaining about parts availability issues that were resolved over 15 years ago, the size of the dealer network in the US, and resentment over Mares shuttering Dacor, a bankrupt US scuba equipment manufacturer that Mares' parent company purchased for its dealer network and brand name. There are also complaints about the price of their new regs.

As to the tech community. First off, Mares is well represented in the ice and cold water community. It isn't particularly popular for cave diving for three major reasons. First is their stupid corporate policy of insisting on selling their regs (except octos) only in limited combinations of first and second stages. These packages rarely line up with tech divers immediate needs and even when they do, divers have to take into account that they may have difficulty or additional expense adding the exact stages they want in the future. A second reason is that the hose routing of their classic second stages isn't particularly well suited for independent doubles, particularly in sidemount. The final reason is that cave divers tend to dive what their teammates are diving. And there's a strong preference for national brands there (regardless of where the reg is actually made). So, in Britain it's Apeks and in the US it's Scubapro, Halcyon, HOG, or Deep6.

None of these reasons apply to the OP. He is looking at buying used regs for single tank diving in a region where Mares has a solid dealer network. Either Mares or Scubapro will be fine, it is going to come down to the individual deals he can find. In the US, you can usually find much better deals on used Mares gear for all the reasons above, but I don't know if this holds true for Israel

 

[lowwall]

BTW, I recently received the following from one of the most respected reg techs on this site in response to something I posted about a Mares 22 first stage:

It's an easy reg to service, and has surprising IP stability from full to empty tank. Better than Aqualung or Scubapro.

 

[stepfen]

I have the Mk11/C370 with R095 and I’m very happy with that setup

I second the Mk11/C370 as an excellent choice for the Mediterranean (i.e. not too cold, not too dirty) waters. Small/light and very good performing set with very reasonable price even for new.

Compared to Mk17, Mk11 is not sealed - but for Mediterranean sea I would say that the environmental seal has nothing to offer because it is a diaphragm reg hence all sensitive parts are already protected from salt and dirt. Not to mention that Mk11 is cheaper and easier to service. The only advantage Mk17 might have is in cold waters which you won't encounter in the Med.

 

[BoltSnap]

I second the Mk11/C370 as an excellent choice for the Mediterranean (i.e. not too cold, not too dirty) waters. Small/light and very good performing set with very reasonable price even for new.

Compared to Mk17, Mk11 is not sealed - but for Mediterranean sea I would say that the environmental seal has nothing to offer because it is a diaphragm reg hence all sensitive parts are already protected from salt and dirt. Not to mention that Mk11 is cheaper and easier to service. The only advantage Mk17 might have is in cold waters which you won't encounter in the Med.

Sealing the first stage isn't about "cold" water only, it is also about keeping muck and sand out of the first stage completely and reducing the "stress" on the diaphragm and spring in the first stage in the heat of the day and fine sand in addition to water with high mineral content in Libya. Sealed first will have less issues in our use.

When I was deciding between the MK11/C370 and the MK17/C370, I found that the price difference isn't huge between the two combinations and eventually opted for the MK17 to reduce potential issues and I can also go longer in between servicing the first stages (3 instead of 2 years) which meant reduced total cost of ownership for the MK17 over the MK11. I had to pause for while and do a lot of thinking to arrive at this conclusion for it was very close between the MK11 and the MK17.

Either one is a great choice and I haven't heard anyone complain about the MK11/C370 at all. It is just that the MK17/C370 will have less issues and can take longer time between servicing (I compared notes with friends who use it in their rental/training fleet before my decision).

P.S. I compared the retail prices for the R195 octo and the C370 second stage, the retail for the R195 is 219Euro and the C370 is 205Euro, strange. I guess the additional cost for the C370 will be for the longer octo hose. I still think that the octo should be of higher quality and the same as the primary. C370 or R195 for octo are miles ahead of the R095.

 

[BoltSnap]

In the US, you can usually find much better deals on used Mares gear

That's because Mares' regulators, or anything Mares, loses its value MUCH faster than SP just like a Fiat vs. Mercedes (or worse).

 

[lowwall]

That's because Mares' regulators, or anything Mares, loses its value MUCH faster than SP just like a Fiat vs. Mercedes (or worse).

In the US, Fiat aka Jeep/Ram/Dodge/Chrysler/Alfa/Fiat (in descending sales numbers) have similar depreciation to Mercedes. Mercedes/BMW/Audi all have high depreciation here because they focus on the high end leasing market. I paid literally half the original sticker price on my BMW 328i. It was 3 years old, with only 7000 miles. If you want high resale value in the US, the top brands are Subaru and Toyota. That's why I bought my Sienna new.

This illustrates something important. Everyone's situation is different. If you are going to provide information that is accurate and useful, you have to be willing to understand your audience's context.

 

[happy-diver]

I have-had a Mares rebreather

Don't you love their fins

 

[Pressurehead]

Lover their fins, what's this like? I have only used Dräger, even then only shallow stuff.

 

[stepfen]

Sealing the first stage isn't about "cold" water only, it is also about keeping muck and sand out of the first stage completely and reducing the "stress" on the diaphragm and spring in the first stage in the heat of the day and fine sand in addition to water with high mineral content in Libya. Sealed first will have less issues in our use.

Sorry but in Mk11 there is nowhere sand, muck, or minerals could cause problems under normal use even in contaminated waters (if you can call the Mediterranean sea as such). There are no exposed fragile moving parts. What harm sand can cause to the diaphragm, the (thick) spring or the (static) disk/washers??

That's assuming of course basic after-dive care - without that any 1st stage will eventually suffer.

As for the heat/sun, left under the sun the whole first stage will suffer from the heat no matter if it is sealed or not.

Just my 2c as always.

 

[BoltSnap]

Sorry but in Mk11 there is nowhere sand, muck, or minerals could cause problems under normal use even in contaminated waters (if you can call the Mediterranean sea as such). There are no exposed fragile moving parts. What harm sand can cause to the diaphragm, the (thick) spring or the (static) disk/washers??

That's assuming of course basic after-dive care - without that any 1st stage will eventually suffer.

As for the heat/sun, left under the sun the whole first stage will suffer from the heat no matter if it is sealed or not.

Just my 2c as always.

The diaphragm is still exposed to the elements and will deteriorate rapidly causing serious issues with the first stage when it isn't taken care of properly. Heat and fine sand and crystallized salt on the spring and diaphragm will cause issues too even if the first stage was rinsed thoroughly if there is high mineral/salt content in the rinse water. I have seen the effects and the differences in sealed and unsealed diaphragm regulators over the past decades working on regulators as dive center technicians servicing school's and customers' regulators. Sealed first stage is always better.