Should a Divemaster speak up?

[herman]

I say absolutely does not have a say in the matter. At best get this candidate is certified as a rescue diver and has no say in whether the OW candidate is certified or not. As for training his only roles are to assure a fun dive and all safety requirements are met.

You are right in that the DM does not have any say in the actual passing or failing of a student but any instructor that poo poos an experienced DMs concerns is a fool begging for trouble. Granted a fresh DM straight out of a zero to hero training may not be the best judge but I have DMed for several years, been diving longer than many of our instructors and have 2 or 3 times more bottom time than some of them. If the DM sees a major issue, brings it to the attention of the instructor and the instructor either ignores it or chooses to let it go, he is setting both of them as well as the shop up for trouble. I for one would never DM for that instructor again, I am simply not going to work with an instructor who just passes student on. To me, the DMs role is a lot more than just a dive nanny and a tank monkey. I often take on the difficult students for extra help, freeing up the instructor to continue the class. We will not pass them if they are not ready and the final decision is the instructors but a good DM can take a make the difference in the student passing or worse being passed on by an overtaxed instructor. We often have big classes, I am DMing for a class of 9 OWs now. The instructor and DM are a team who work together to give the students the best possible training while still having fun. If the instructors you work with consider you nothing more than a tank monkey and equipment gofer, find a better instructor.

 

[fnfalman]

I say absolutely does not have a say in the matter. At best get this candidate is certified as a rescue diver and has no say in whether the OW candidate is certified or not. As for training his only roles are to assure a fun dive and all safety requirements are met.

Yeah, heaven forbids that a DM candidate actually could recognize a diver in distress or unskilled.

Yep. It takes someone with an INSTRUCTOR certificate to say that a student diver is floundering and being a hazard to himself and others around him. Yessirree. The rest of us non-instructor divers are just too stupid, too ignorant and too untrained to recognize that.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I would take that DMC before some DM's I've seen. Or read.

 

[Web Monkey]

Horse poo, everything that goes on in that class is the DMs business.

But not the DMC's.

Terry

 

[Akimbo]

My son is a divemaster in training and helped out on an open-water certification weekend. One of the candidates looked like he had never been in a pool with scuba much less ready for an open-water check-out. He couldn't put his gear together properly …

I am not in the recreational training business so am not in a position to pass judgment. I can say you are describing 10-20% of the divers I see on the beach and on charter boats as soon as seas get higher than a mill pond.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

Speaking up can be done tactfully in a concerned manner. Anyone in my group from DM to OW diver getting their cert is welcome to pull me aside and express any concerns they have. I have had an OW diver on their cert dive express doubts about a classmates ability as an independent diver. The classmates difficulties were gear related and the second day the student was a completely different diver. I asked the concerned diver for their day 2 opinion, would they dive with this person if I certified them? The answer was yes after seeing the change different gear made. I take the concern of other divers seriously because they may be this persons dive buddy and they need to feel the person is safe enough for them to dive with.

I believe anyone working as a team should be able to express their concerns and get an explanation of the pertinent information and plan of action for dealing with the concerns of group members.

I could not do what I do without my DMs. Some students would rather talk to a DM because the DM doesn't make the call on whether or not they get certified. My DMs always discreetly bring those conversations to me and either receive permission to handle it themselves or I take care of it depending on the situation.

A non confrontational, well timed conversation with a DMC about questions or concerns shouldn't be an issue. Don't be surprised if you get a little lecture about stuff they were testing you on that you missed.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[Maximum Overdive]

I think it's the DMC'S responsibility to bring this forward to the instructor because the instructor can't have his/her eyes on all people all the time. That's what the dmc is there for, to assist. Sometimes when teaching it's easy to get caught up in things and miss other things. If there is truly an issue I believe the instructor would appreciate knowing what the dmc witnessed and I firmly believe that the student wants to pass the coarse fealing confident that what he/she has learned makes them feel safe when diving for the first time without the safety net of the instructors watching. The student is paying to learn and not for some trophy card, they want to know what they are doing wrong so they can fix it! It does knowbody any good to push someone through and leave the student feeling like, did I just get the quickie coarse, I wonder what I should know? In short, not telling the student is cheating them and not notifying the instructor is negligent!

 

[herman]

But not the DMC's.

Terry

I do not agree, the DMC is training to be a DM and so they should act like one, including bringing issues to the instructor. They may be wrong but better wrong and corrected than right and it was something the instructor missed. If they were mistaken fine, they got to learn why an instructor handled an issue in the manner they did. Maybe my LDS does things different but DMCs participate in the class - demoing skills and helping students under the direction of the instructor and once finishing their DM they (we) have an active role in the class. I spend a lot of time working directly with students.....usually the problem ones.

 

[TSandM]

Confronting someone is almost always a recipe for a poor reception. People don't much like criticism, implied or overt.

But most people like questions that imply that they know more than the person asking the question.

With a student like this, after the first dive, the DMC could have gone to the instructor and said, "So-and-so seems to have a great many issues (perhaps specified). I would like to help him; what do you have for suggestions on how I (or any DM) can help him fix these problems so he can earn his certification?" An approach like this might make the instructor take another, more critical look at so-and-so's performance, and also give him an easy out for prescribing some remedial work.

Garrobo, despite a rather rough presentation, has a good point. I was definitely the problem student in my OW class, and by my current standards, should not have been passed. But I turned out okay. A LOT depends on the personality of the student, and the resources available for further training.

 

[Web Monkey]

I do not agree, the DMC is training to be a DM and so they should act like one, including bringing issues to the instructor. They may be wrong but better wrong and corrected than right and it was something the instructor missed.

An instructor who completely misses a train wreck as described by the OP is either incompetent or just doesn't care. A student that can't assemble equipment and has no buoyancy control should have been noticed by the second class.

It's the instructors responsibility to observe the student in the water. "Not noticing" just shouldn't be an option.


Terry