Had my first student today
- Thread starter JRK44
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@tursiops,
They don't care. They really don't care. They just want us to be nice to the new guy, who appears to have finally kept his promise about leaving.
If this discussion is a guide, this forum is no longer a place where standards can be supported without being accused of attacking people or trying to show off or losing your mind over trivia or without having to explain everything nine ways to the guy who keeps putting the instructor manual through a Cuisinart to support his ever-shifting positions.
This may solve one problem, but definitely creates another. If some is indeed misinformation or dangerous or just a bad idea, it needs to be called out in the thread -- not a DM -- immediately and unambiguously. Otherwise, The errors exist in public but are only corrected in private. The questionable post lives on and is searchable and reposted by those who don't know any better. We are, in fact, told specifically to do this by the Mods and the Chairman. They repeatedly tell us they don't moderate for errors, misinformation, etc, that's our job. So here we are....do we allow nonsense and misinformation to live and prosper, or accept the occasional hurt feelings?
Come on Scraps you did attack the new guy. You didn't coach, discuss or make any attempt to help him, you mocked him and in particular his skills outside of diving and social skills.
Based on your style of debate, I would be reticent to be one of your pupils, I am not doubting your diving skills and knowledge of standards but would seriously question your coaching and people skills and I suspect you know this an area you need to really work on.
Oh, I readily admit I eventually returned fire,
I also readily admit that my third message—the one I addressed to Wibble was snarky—but I know Wibble is made of stern enough stuff to both dish it out and take it, and he had already lashed out, so I don’t feel bad about that.
But look at my first post in the thread, #29. I acknowledged I might not have the whole story and explained why instructors got concerned by the OP’s account and explained why such a seemingly safe and simple situation could put him in jeopardy. I was definitely in coaching mode there.
He responded with a huffy threat to leave.
My second post (#32) was also solicitous, despite his stiff arm. I assured him no one blamed him for not knowing the standards and told him my criticism was aimed at his instructor, not him.
He followed up by bragging how much smarter and better at explaining stuff he is than instructors, whom he characterized as average people off the street who happen to enjoy scuba in their spare time.
That and subsequent comments persuaded me he was arrogant, thin-skinned, and unwilling to accept any criticism, constructive or otherwise, regardless of the competence of the source.
So yeah, I took the gloves off.
Re-read those first two posts of mine and you’ll see I’m not the one who set the dumpster ablaze.
One way to avoid this sort of controversy is to have a section for people like the OP who post seeking only affirmation and encouragement. Then we’ll know not to bother giving them useful feedback.
Explain to me what’s wrong with posts 29 and 32, and I’ll listen to your criticism. Fair enough?
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So you do know the difference in tone between the two words? Being a jackass is a choice.
Now I will admit, I'm a moron, but I do have a grasp of the English language. Also, for about the last 40 years, the RSTC standards have been watered down and they suck, and PADI has followed suit, Their standards, in a lot of cases, are in conflict with other published documents.
As example, this is the webpage for the PADI divemaster class
Divemaster | PADI
it reads, in part:
"To earn your Divemaster rating, you will complete a series of knowledge development sessions, water skill workshops and hands-on assessments for the following:"
"Supervising dive activities and assisting with student divers"
"Conducting dive briefings"
Now if the candidate is not able to do the briefing or assist with student divers (according to standards) then how does the instructor perform a "hands on assessment"?
What annoys me about this conversation is you have the OP that was happy and excited about becoming a divemaster, God knows why. Then, some of you idiots come along, and insist on dropping turd after turd into the poor guys punchbowl.
It seems impossible for some of you to do two very simple things:
1 - Be happy that there are still people willing to be Divemasters, and enjoy their excitement, while it lasts. Without them this industry would look a lot different.
2 - Trust his instructor to know what they are doing. Now you can fluff your ego in any manner you wish, however, your instructors card is no more valuable than theirs. Your certified divers have no more privilege than theirs.
Now I rarely post anything serious. Why? Because of the anonymous nature of a internet forum, some believe you have permission to be a bleeding arsehole. Who knows, some of you may may be a arsehole in real life. It is not a good look.
There is an Instructors forum where you could have discussed this, there is a PADI forum where you could have asked questions, but no. You don't see a lot of assholary on those forums.
Some of you call yourselves professionals, try acting like it.
I have skimmed through most of this raging debate, and I may have missed something that I did not notice.
People are debating as to whether it is OK for a person who is training to be a dive master, someone who has not demonstrated mastery of skills, to perform initial instruction of an uncertified diver. It seems to me that the focus is on the training of the DMT. Is it good for the DMT's training to get experience teaching this way?
What about the uncertified diver who signed up for dive instruction? Did that OW student sign up with the expectation that someone who is just beginning to learn basic skills will be the instructor for the course, or was the expectation that instruction will be done by someone fully qualified to teach?
I recently had a major surgery, and I would not have been happy to learn that the surgery was conducted by a new medical student rather than an experienced surgeon. It might have been a really good experience for the medical student, but it might not have been so good for me.
People are debating as to whether it is OK for a person who is training to be a dive master, someone who has not demonstrated mastery of skills, to perform initial instruction of an uncertified diver. It seems to me that the focus is on the training of the DMT. Is it good for the DMT's training to get experience teaching this way?
What about the uncertified diver who signed up for dive instruction? Did that OW student sign up with the expectation that someone who is just beginning to learn basic skills will be the instructor for the course, or was the expectation that instruction will be done by someone fully qualified to teach?
I recently had a major surgery, and I would not have been happy to learn that the surgery was conducted by a new medical student rather than an experienced surgeon. It might have been a really good experience for the medical student, but it might not have been so good for me.
The point is, John, that our OP was expressing enthusiasm, not giving a blow by blow. Even now that our OP has shared some finer points under questioning, it seems that the original post probably used "language" and "terms" that long time instructors wouldn't use for the same story.
Lighten up. Read the thread with a discerning eye and an open mind.
Scraps, whether you like it or not, you contributed to our OP's negative response overall. And then, your feelings got hurt, so you doubled down, but it wasn't your fault, right?
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