Had my first student today

[L13]

As previously described, having the DMT direct any part of the training is more than is allowed for demonstrating.

Except, DMT Practical Assessment 1 pg 130 "2. Coordinate student diver flow during training." sounds an awful lot like "direct any part of training" to me. For that mater, Practical Assessment 1 pg 130 "4. Help a student diver overcome a learning difficulty" sounds like an awful lot like "more than is allowed for demonstrating."

The instructor should have initiated each skill and had her dive puppet demonstrate so she could watch and assess and the entire time. Puppets don't direct, the dance when told to.

Read any part of the actual Divemaster Course section of the PADI instructor manual, and you will instantly conclude that training a DMT to be anything like a "Puppet" would be a direct violation of the PADI standards.

 

[Boarderguy]

Showing them how to do something is demonstrating. AKA helping overcome a problem. Coordinating flow is telling student divers where to go and helping the instructor coral the cats. DMs are not instructors and should not be undertaking tasks the instructors are trained to do. DMs are often glorified tank monkey's that do a lot of the grunt work so the instructor can instruct.

 

[L13]

DMs are often glorified tank monkey's that do a lot of the grunt work so the instructor can instruct.

What they often are, and what the standards say they should be are two different things.

Try this on for size: pg: 131 "2. Escort continuing education student divers during a training dive that allows indirect instructor supervision; report performance and learning difficulties to instructor." Pg. 29 Indirect Supervision "a. Dive site: be present ... and be prepared to quickly enter the water."

Sounds like the DMT is completely executing the dive, "assessing" the performance of students, and out of sight of the instructor. All not only in compliance with, but required by the PADI standards for DMT training.

 

[Boarderguy]

Let's break down some English here

Escort continuing education student divers

Continuing education means the divers are already certified. They are not first time bubble monsters forgetting they can't breath through their nose. Continuing education divers have already passed a course and generally understand if they ascend while holding their breath that bad things may happen. This whole thread is about a DMT taking a new diver, that likely barely knows how to put the yoke on the correct way, out and doing a full training dive (OW2 and later confused with maybe CW2). These are not anywhere near the same scenario.

 

[Zef]

Yawn....

....the relevant points have been made repeatedly and the thought camps have defined themselves. This discussion has evolved (devolved?) to the point where folks are waxing on quixotically.

Please think about taking further discussion about agency standards to a private conversation as very little of the current back and forth is constructive.

Happy Friday all.

-Z

 

[L13]

Let's break down some English here

Continuing education means the divers are already certified.

But still a DMT conducting training dives, assessing performance and all around doing more than "just observing" or being a "Puppet." The persons making those statements didn't say "when dealing with uncertified divers." The statements were made as general descriptions of DM's and DMT's in general.

Notice, I did include the qualifying info that it was certified divers in this case. I was fully aware of this, I typed rather than cut and pasting the excerpt of the manual (I was looking at a paper copy). This is because I'm not painting with a broad brush. I am not glossing over the details. I am not dismissively assuming I know everything and that my opinion about what should be is. I am actually reading the standards. And I am realizing that many here believe the standards say things that they don't actually say, and are too proud to read them and admit that they are wrong (at least about what is, even if they might be right about what should be).

In general, there was a shameful rush to judgement in absentia of an instructor based on limited information without clarifying questions and against standards that are not in fact The Standards. The instructor in question may in fact have violated the actual standards, I think there may be circumstantial evidence of such. But the bulk of the criticism they have receive has been misguided and often actually contradictory to the actual standards. Most of it has been with casual broad statements that on closer inspection are not only disrespectful to the instructor, to the OP, and to DMs/DMTs in general, but are also inconsistent with the standards and the code of conduct that all the instructors that have commented have committed to upholding.

Instructors on here, Imagine one of your enthusiastic students came on here to comment on your training. Imagine that they joyously reported your training using poor or inaccurate terminology. Imagine them being unaware of the cautions you took with regard to positioning, equipment, planning etc., the times you smoothly interjected to correct issues without being noticed, and therefore them representing things as they appeared not as they were. Imagine what incorrect conclusions we could draw about the nature of your training in that situation.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Yawn....

....the relevant points have been made repeatedly and the thought camps have defined themselves. This discussion has evolved (devolved?) to the point where folks are waxing on quixotically.

Please think about taking further discussion about agency standards to a private conversation as very little of the current back and forth is constructive.

Happy Friday all.

-Z

Hey Zef,

At least you tried!

 

[nadwidny]

It's amusing to see how the instructor cadre is losing their minds over someone teaching a mindless skill in 6' of water. It's not like the guy was doing a heart transplant. Get off your ego train.

And for what it's worth, sometimes medical interns do get to do a bit of hands-on stuff. Easy stuff. Just like the OP did. And just like the OP they like to tell their family and friends about it.

 

[Litefoot]

I didn’t make it through every page of this thread. I don’t know all the PADI rules, but I know what verbal combat looks like. Maybe we can apply the rule “praise in public, correct in private” next time. Edit: I've never met any of ya'll personally, but trying to get in the last word here ain't a good look.

 

[tursiops]

Maybe it is you who has missed the point.

For the bulk of this discussion, does it really mater? Other than the 2m depth question, the remain issues are are the same regardless of CW2 or OW2. The instructor still needs to be directly and closely supervising both students, and the DMT is still acting as a "Certified Assistant in training". Assuming adequate supervision by the instructor, the only question is if the "Certified Assistant in training" did something that a "Certified Assistant" isn't allowed to do, even with adequate supervision by the instructor.

@JRK44 has stated that both he and the student were closely supervised by the instructor. No one on SB has any evidence to the contrary.

Direct (not just "close") supervision is mandatory, but not sufficient to meet the standards. The activities being supervised are the issue. The OP is training to be DM, not an instructor.