Question Bauer Capitano II 480V 3 Phase to 240V Single Phase Help

[Angelo Farina]

I have a water pump of 2.2 kW running perfectly with a 3 kW VFD at my mountain house, where the power supply is rated just 3.5 kW max.
If I do not switch on the induction kitchen or the oven, it works without problems.
Here at home my system has 6.5 kW from mains, plus 6 kW from the solar panels, plus other 6 kW from the LG battery. I think that here I could easily run a 5 kW motor driven by a 7.5 kW VFD...
In other countries (France, for example, where there are a lot of super-Phoenix nuclear plants and electricity comes almost for free) the standard home systems are 15 kW.
All these system are indeed 220V single phase, so you need a three-phases VFD for running a 3-phases motor. The nice thing of a VFD is that, if the system has not enough power, you can reduce the power requirement by slowing down slightly the motor. You have full control... If instead you simply buy a new 220V motor single phase (which is also less efficient, as it uses capacitors for creating the additional rotated phase signals) and it draws too much current, you have no way to slow it down for reducing the power requirement.

 

[happy-diver]

Do it the smart way the way it works, expand as you choose



Just plug your three phase machines into the 3 phase sockets

 

[tbone1004]

Do it the smart way the way it works, expand as you choose



Just plug your three phase machines into the 3 phase sockets

yeah except that is the last way you should do it. The only time you should ever consider one is if you have say a dozen different shop tools that are all 3-phase that you will never use simultaneously with none of them having high inrush demand. Think lathes, drill presses, etc.
Rotary phase conversion was tolerable 10+ years ago when VFD's were insanely expensive, but rotary phase converters have 2 massive faults. First one is they use 30% of the power demand to operate, so your 5hp motor that is designed to pull 20a on a 220v circuit is now going to pull about 27a to run with a rotary phase converter. You now have a 30% increase in your power bill and you still need to buy a soft-start to run the compressor safely on a home power grid because compressors have a massive inrush demand like all pumps/fans do.

To anyone listening, please do not even consider a rotary phase converter for any compressors, it's more idiotic than converting to single phase.

 

[happy-diver]

I have a water pump of 2.2 kW running perfectly with a 3 kW VFD at my mountain house, where the power supply is rated just 3.5 kW max.
If I do not switch on the induction kitchen or the oven, it works without problems.

Not much resistance on a water pump there paisan
Not like the million megatons to start a compressor

and you must remember not to wash the Ferrari, or have a shower
whilst Mamma is cooking the bolognese, or you will be in the stew


To anyone listening, please do not even consider a rotary phase converter for any compressors
unless they are current builds and have up to date electronics it's more idiotic than buying VFDs

have used them all plugged them in wired them up done it and know what you're talking about


An offer of casho mucho to anyone that shows me an operating model or you are all talking BS


Is this like the camp of Gentile versus Chatterton or is that the camp of Chatterton versus Gentile

 

[tbone1004]

@happy-diver operating model of what? single phase to 3-phase VFD? tons of youtube videos

 

[happy-diver]

240 to 415 and overcome the massive torque, to start a “charged” breathing air compressor
and pump your USUN booster and fill your banks and everyone elses and serve you forever

Don't be a tight arse mess around half your life
Waiting hours for fills going deaf, then you're in strife
Go get you some three phase, but just don't tell your wife
Or your husband, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
But it costs much money he says, but there is tinnitus too
You can go plug any machine in, is what you can do
Just go grab some three phase it's all up to you

You're about the most knowledgeable dude on here and the answer isn't always in numbers
The answer comes from setting up your own stuff, make it practical not cheap doing it right


Go big no small no

Incroyablement magnifique !

 

[broncobowsher]

Why a rotary convertor is a bad idea...
The convertor is a motor and a generator all in one. It is a motor with no output shaft, all internal. the motor is single phase, the generator is 3-phase.

So you are converting single phase power into motion, with a loss.
The motion is driving the 3-phase generator, with another loss.
And now you are driving the 3-phase motor on the compressor, with the only loss that you should be dealing with.
It would be better to just ditch all the conversion to 3-phase and the losses with the conversion and just run a single phase motor.

 

[Gone for diving]

Why a rotary convertor is a bad idea...
The convertor is a motor and a generator all in one. It is a motor with no output shaft, all internal. the motor is single phase, the generator is 3-phase.

So you are converting single phase power into motion, with a loss.
The motion is driving the 3-phase generator, with another loss.
And now you are driving the 3-phase motor on the compressor, with the only loss that you should be dealing with.
It would be better to just ditch all the conversion to 3-phase and the losses with the conversion and just run a single phase motor.

When I think of a rotary phase converter,
I am not thinking of that style.
I am thinking of a 220v 3phase motor with a contol box with capacitors,
There is a bunch of start caps to get it running, then those drop out of the system, once spinning the 3phase motor will run and create a simulated third leg,
That a simple roto phaser, it's like a spinning transformer,
To make it better , capacitors are added to the 2 hot 220v to balance out the missing third leg and get the voltage up,
If you need high voltages, install a step up transformer,, the more motors spinning on the 3 phase side the more true the 3phase becomes,,,
I have built a few of these, work well if you have multiple motors to run,
Look up static phaser, that's as basic as it gets, then you just add more capacitors,

If you have one compressor only, go vdf much simpler and nicer,

 

[tbone1004]

Why a rotary convertor is a bad idea...
The convertor is a motor and a generator all in one. It is a motor with no output shaft, all internal. the motor is single phase, the generator is 3-phase.

So you are converting single phase power into motion, with a loss.
The motion is driving the 3-phase generator, with another loss.
And now you are driving the 3-phase motor on the compressor, with the only loss that you should be dealing with.
It would be better to just ditch all the conversion to 3-phase and the losses with the conversion and just run a single phase motor.

ding ding except you want to run a VFD when you can for compressors since AC-DC-AC is done with no moving parts and minimal efficiency losses. Overall still more efficient than a single phase motor believe it or not.

 

[Angelo Farina]

When I think of a rotary phase converter,
I am not thinking of that style.
I am thinking of a 220v 3phase motor with a contol box with capacitors,
There is a bunch of start caps to get it running, then those drop out of the system, once spinning the 3phase motor will run and create a simulated third leg,
That a simple roto phaser, it's like a spinning transformer,
To make it better , capacitors are added to the 2 hot 220v to balance out the missing third leg and get the voltage up,
If you need high voltages, install a step up transformer,, the more motors spinning on the 3 phase side the more true the 3phase becomes,,,
I have built a few of these, work well if you have multiple motors to run,
Look up static phaser, that's as basic as it gets, then you just add more capacitors,

If you have one compressor only, go vdf much simpler and nicer,

This kind of circuit with capacitors is quite inefficient and provides no control on speed, nor avoids the big current absorption at start.
Furthermore your description seems applicable only for those few sites where 220V is provided by two opposite phases. Usually 220V is provided by just a single phase and the neutral wire, so you need that the circuit generates TWO missing phases, not just one.
A good VFD avoids all these problems and runs with efficiency better than 95%. I do not see why this simple, cheap and reliable solution is facing such an opposition here...