Recreational Pony Bottles, completely unnecessary? Why or why not?

[grf88]

Right--that's what I believe that article was suggesting.

My take on all this is that for recreational/sport diving, instead of us throwing up our hands in acceptance of the supposed inevitability of lax buddy procedures--which is the position that article took--we could do more to promote tighter buddy procedures among divers who don't want to go all "self-sufficient"/"solo" for relatively benign diving.

That is fine with me, if some people would stop demonizing those that prefer self sufficiency., which is what normally starts these never ending threads. Split fins anyone.

 

[Lorenzoid]

That is fine with me, if some people would stop demonizing those that prefer self sufficiency., which is what normally starts these never ending threads. Split fins anyone.

Well, don't count me as one of the demonizers, if they are here. That was the problem with the original question of whether pony bottles are "completely unnecessary" for the recreational diver--it didn't account for the existence of self-sufficient/solo diving as a distinct style of diving. And maybe other styles that, to a lot of us, are another world from the kind of diving we do, such as diving in near-freezing water.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

My take on all this is that for recreational/sport diving, instead of us throwing up our hands in acceptance of the supposed inevitability of lax buddy procedures--which is the position that article took--we could do more to promote tighter buddy procedures among divers who don't want to go all "self-sufficient"/"solo" for relatively benign diving.

It is obvious that I've thrown up my hands. Unless you get agencies, and the big ones at that, tighten the quality of instruction, nothing will change overall. My 2 bar.

 

[grf88]

Well, don't count me as one of the demonizers, if they are here. That was the problem with the original question of whether pony bottles are "completely unnecessary" for the recreational diver--it didn't account for the existence of self-sufficient/solo diving as a distinct style of diving. And maybe other styles that, to a lot of us, are another world from the kind of diving we do, such as diving in near-freezing water.

I certainly don't include you in that group. It is a small group, mostly from one agency who enter every thread that is about pony bottles and try to convince everyone else:
They are useless as people don't know how to use them
Those that use them obviously know nothing about gas planning
Those who use them are dangerous divers who are to be avoided because they don't monitor their gas
If people knew how to dive they wouldn't need them
There is never sudden loss of air unless it is the diver's fault
They should learn to dive our way as that is the only proper way.
etc. etc. etc.

 

[Celt]

So everybody that chooses to use a redundant system is solo. I am sure that there are many who use doubles or sidemount would be surprised to hear that.

Where the need to share air is concerned there solo.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I certainly don't include you in that group. It is a small group, mostly from one agency who enter every thread that is about pony bottles and try to convince everyone else:
They are useless as people don't know how to use them
Those that use them obviously know nothing about gas planning
Those who use them are dangerous divers who are to be avoided because they don't monitor their gas
If people knew how to dive they wouldn't need them
There is never sudden loss of air unless it is the diver's fault
They should learn to dive our way as that is the only proper way.
etc. etc. etc.

There is a line to be drawn between "convincing" others and simply noting that for rec diving in relatively benign conditions there is an alternative that is less equipment-oriented and more team-oriented if that sounds appealing. I try to keep in mind that these threads might be read by newer divers. A new diver hears about or sees a pony bottle, and intuitively it seems like the only real solution to the perceived deficiencies.

 

[MichaelMc]

Where the need to share air is concerned there solo.

This is not solo:
I got my own compass! I'm diving solo baby. No need for my buddy for that. SOLO.
my own computer " " solo baby. " " " " " " " SOLO.
depth gauge
line cutter
whistle
mirror
DSMB
..... etc.

Independence from your buddy for some part of diving does not make you SOLO.

Not having a buddy or diving as if you don't means you are solo (setting aside whether you are prepared for that or not or whether you're doing it irresponsibly by ignoring your buddy).

 

[grf88]

There is a line to be drawn between "convincing" others and simply noting that for rec diving in relatively benign conditions there is an alternative that is less equipment-oriented and more team-oriented if that sounds appealing. I try to keep in mind that these threads might be read by newer divers. A new diver hears about or sees a pony bottle, and intuitively it seems like the only real solution to the perceived deficiencies.

That is fine but some will decry the use of a pony bottle as an alternate air supply in any situation while happily using their doubles.

 

[Blackcrusader]

You shouldn't be anywhere near water if you are depending on others to bail you out when things go wrong. You should be independent even if you are diving with a buddy.

I have mentioned this before on some threads that my BSCA Sports diving instructor who was also a commercial diving instructor always taught us that we should be self reliant and not depend on a buddy if we have an issue, and that in reality we all dive alone with people around us.

Dive buddies are not looking at each other all the time and one can have an incident they can resolve without relying on a buddy. With recreational divers on vacation I've seen divers lose a weight belt and head to the surface in an uncontrolled ascent before they could get the attention of a buddy, tank slips where they need to take off their BCD and sort that, or signal a buddy to help, a fin has come off, dropped camera equipment and mainly non life threatening things. My favourite of course is the underwater vomit and fish feeding. For those divers who have never experienced this they ask me why I did not go to the surface. They are often shocked there is a simple way to deal with it without ending the dive.

I will pair up with a vacation diver and they do fine on their dives. They are there to have fun on their vacation as am I. Sometimes I will join a dive with a group OW divers who are not doing deep dives... I still enjoy the dives. Sometimes though vacation dive buddies just keep following the guide instead of staying with me when I stop to take photos or video.

When I am on vacation with a dive buddy the places we dive at the DM might lead some divers but dive centers will often let other divers do their own dive plan especially as those into photography may want to stay at a place to get some shots as the rest of the group swim by. A guide might lead some divers to max depth 25m while myself and my dive buddy do a 35m dive and being separated from the guides group is not an issue. We do stay in sight of the group but could be 50m distance away. We like to search for things on our own and not depend on a guide. Also in Asia it's common that dive centers want their divers to follow a guide even if they are very experienced and not matter the qualification. It's the way they want to do their customer service. Some places will let you rent tanks and do your own dives some will not. Diving in Asia can be really cheap so paying US$20 for a dive that comes with a guide is a good thing.

 

[Celt]

(You shouldn't be anywhere near water if you are depending on others to bail you out when things go wrong. You should be independent even if you are diving with a buddy) that idea is total rubbish. I could not have made 90% of the dives I’ve done without a reliable standby. The safest way you can get in the water is with a reliable buddy or standby. Some situations you simply will not manage on your own and to not know that is a fatal mistake.