Recreational Pony Bottles, completely unnecessary? Why or why not?

[grf88]

With that said, let me know when you want to dive sometime next season

An offer to drive 10 hours to dive in a muddy quarry. I can't imagine why it was not already on my bucket list.

 

[KenGordon]

Reg failure should be an uncommon problem if a new diver is taught about gear service and cycles.

Uncommon but fatal if you don’t mitigate the problem. A large part of diver training is for events that are uncommon but in a reasonable population happen often enough to lead to an unacceptable death rate.

 

[Hartattack]

If the shop f’s up bottle and fills it with 100% O2? Very possibly the dive boat burns to the waterline when pure O2 comes in contact with non-O2 clean equipment.
Why on Earth do you think this is relevant to THE QUESTION YOU POSED? Are recreational pony bottles completely useless?

You are not required to use them. OTHERS see the value of them and choose to use them. A 13, 20, 30 or 40 ft3 cylinder can be taken underwater. How they are used, generally speaking determines how they are described.

• Pony bottle describes an independent reserve of air that serves the same purpose as MG calculation. Except it is completely independent of any type of primary cylinder failure.
• Deco bottle is gas that is intended to be breathed on ascent to help with off gassing nitrogen. It is part of you gas plan. This is what you deadly 100% O2 bottle COULD be used for. I am not sure where somebody gets a standard pony that is not O2 clean filled with O2, but it’s your hypothetical….
• Stage bottle, the same bottle can be used for used during a dive depending on the dive plan and route.

They are all physically the same cylinder. What you call them is determined by the USE. That you don’t use a pony cylinder does not mean they are useless. Their are a whole bunch of things I don’t take in the water, that doesn’t mean they are useless, it just means I don’t have a use for them.

To your modified question of “should beginning divers sling a pony?” (Nicely placed moving target) They could, but no one is saying they SHOULD.

Peace out…

We can agree to disagree. Cheers.

 

[Hartattack]

An offer to drive 10 hours to dive in a muddy quarry. I can't imagine why it was not already on my bucket list.

I was thinking the Straits, but a quarry is fine too.

 

[Hartattack]

Delete

 

[Wibble]

... the way to do this is to calculate minimum gas into your recreational dive plan. Would you like to see how to do that, so you will not have to carry a pony bottle on your next dive?

That whooshing noise is you missing the point.

Redundant gas is not included in the plan. Redundant gas is purely for emergency use only**. Emergencies are legion: "boom", idiot (distracted and emptied tin), giving to other divers...

Your plan is to.... dive to 25m for 20mins on 21% with a SAC of 20 litres/min... Getting close to the limits on a single as (being lazy, using Multideco, CBA to use a PADI table and work out the gas) 1545.2 ltr air which needs another third for redundancy (surface with 50 bar). Cock that up -- more SAC, not monitoring bottom time -- and you're now into using your reserve.

Most of us in this thread are experienced tech divers quite used to spending hours with MultiDeco AND diving to our plans with known SAC rates. The novices have none of that benefit. Teaching them to use a Pony means they might just get out of a bad situation by themselves and hopefully learn the lessons.


Diving: stuff happens, deal with it. That's why we have redundancy.



** and checking that it works on the bottom and practice

 

[inquis]

Why not teach them how to manage the gas they already have and factor in a reserve?

Most of the reasons for a pony have nothing to do with the size of their or buddy's reserve. I'm not sure why you keep reverting to that as justification that ponies are unnecessary in ALL recreational situations.

When -- in your opinion -- does a diver stop being "new" and it would be OK to discuss self-reliant options with them? Do not forget many divers are not certified in gin-clear water of the tropics.

TBH, if their instructor is worth anything, various redundancy options would be mentioned during OW training, especially if that training was occurring in cold water or limited visibility.

 

[tursiops]

you have a chip on your shoulder about GUE. Who at that agency hurt you?

You need to stop making wild assumptions. Some of my best friends are GUE, and GUE instructors.
They don't run around making uninformed statements about the way people dive and asserting that their way is the only way.
You don't use a pony bottle; you don't even know how to use one. We got it.

 

[Wibble]

Inquest: Tragic scuba diver's death was accident

A jury has concluded that the death of a scuba diver following a lesson was accidental.

www.kentonline.co.uk

Dead bolting to the surface from 6m.

Of course ponies kill people too Annual Diving Incident Report

Never liked those backmounted PONY (Piss Off Not Yours) cylinders. Worries me that people rely on them but frequently cannot reach the valve nor can they re-stow the hoses which discourages practice. They're also very small and barely adequate for a "boom" at 30m with a safety stop.


("Boom" meaning your gas goes "boom")

 

[Wibble]

View attachment 684196
Not sure why this comes to mind....

Macron?