CESA Training

[TMHeimer]

Practicing or even perfecting a CESA in 20 feet of water is a complete waste of time if you plan on diving deeper. It must work for the deepest dive you plan on doing. For someone in clear open water and good conditions who never plans on going deeper than 30 or 40 it might be worth practicing in 20 feet but it really is the bottom of the barrel thinking it is a safe option.

That's a good point. It works for me since I usually dive that shallow. Years ago when doing my AOW I asked my instructor what you'd do if you had to do a CESA from 80 feet. He said "you'd do it anyway".
Si I guess practicing it from 20-30' will at least drill it into you what you're ideally supposed to be doing if you have to do it from deep.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Practicing or even perfecting a CESA in 20 feet of water is a complete waste of time if you plan on diving deeper. It must work for the deepest dive you plan on doing. For someone in clear open water and good conditions who never plans on going deeper than 30 or 40 it might be worth practicing in 20 feet but it really is the bottom of the barrel thinking it is a safe option.

So should the military/law enforcement only practice shooting when someone is shooting at them?

There is value in starting from shallow depths and going deeper. Though I'm a big proponent of redundancy/self-sufficiency. I'd rather do away with CESAs all together.

 

[Celt]

So should the military/law enforcement only practice shooting when someone is shooting at them?

It’s a bit much comparing what the military or law enforcement may have to do and a recreational scuba diver but point taken.

 

[Celt]

That's a good point. It works for me since I usually dive that shallow. Years ago when doing my AOW I asked my instructor what you'd do if you had to do a CESA from 80 feet. He said "you'd do it anyway".
Si I guess practicing it from 20-30' will at least drill it into you what you're ideally supposed to be doing if you have to do it from deep.

Years ago a friend made a CESA from 87 feet and when he was back on board I noticed a spot of blood under his left eyebrow, he perforated his sinus and the next day had two of the worst black eyes I ever see. He was lucky. Another friend made a buoyant assent and later that evening collapsed in a restaurant. He was rushed to hospital with a suspected stroke that turned out to be a spinal bend. Planning for an emergency assent is a terrible option.

 

[TMHeimer]

Years ago a friend made a CESA from 87 feet and when he was back on board I noticed a spot of blood under his left eyebrow, he perforated his sinus and the next day had two of the worst black eyes I ever see. He was lucky. Another friend made a buoyant assent and later that evening collapsed in a restaurant. He was rushed to hospital with a suspected stroke that turned out to be a spinal bend. Planning for an emergency assent is a terrible option.

I agree with all those saying better gas management, good redundancy, etc. So you agree with wetb4 that CESA should be dropped from OW course I assume. I don't know. People survived in both of your examples, one only getting back eyes.
It should never come to needing a CESA, but I don't see the harm of knowing how.

 

[Celt]

So you agree with wetb4 that CESA should be dropped from OW course I assume.

I’m not an instructor so it’s up to agencies to decide what to teach. I think the CESA is outdated and was never a good idea. The odd thing is I don’t believe it was ever taught to commercial divers they’re taught to bailout.

 

[dmaziuk]

OP's question wasn't about dropping it from the curriculum, it was about practicing it from 30 m.

And the consensus answer is no.

 

[Dody]

I think that a lot of people are completely missing the point of my initial question. It was actually twofold: 1) Is it safe to be trained to CESA? 2) How deep can you do it?
All the arguments about planning or buddy diving to avoid being OOA are irrelevant. All the the arguments about redundancy are irrelevant too.
What is relevant are comments like this is too risky because of X, Y and Z. And not based on faith or personal preference/ experience but on science.
At the beginning of the thread, I said: ok, bad idea. I won’t do it. Then, I discussed it with my instructor in details based on science. We realized a couple of things. Number 1: whether you get a full exhale or not changes everything. Whether you are neutrally buoyant at the beginning changes everything. Whether you are able to ascend at an acceptable speed and keep on exhaling (don’t forget that you still have your reg and a tank full of air at anytime if you want to breath) changes everything. Your level of comfort changes everything. I am still in my Stress and Rescue training and what I was unable to do on my first course, I do it as easy as walking in the street now.
I think that we should be a little bit more open minded.

 

[BoltSnap]

I think that a lot of people are completely missing the point of my initial question. It was actually twofold: 1) Is it safe to be trained to CESA? 2) How deep can you do it?
All the arguments about planning or buddy diving to avoid being OOA are irrelevant. All the the arguments about redundancy are irrelevant too.
What is relevant are comments like this is too risky because of X, Y and Z. And not based on faith or personal preference/ experience but on science.
At the beginning of the thread, I said: ok, bad idea. I won’t do it. Then, I discussed it with my instructor in details based on science. We realized a couple of things. Number 1: whether you get a full exhale or not changes everything. Whether you are neutrally buoyant at the beginning changes everything. Whether you are able to ascend at an acceptable speed and keep on exhaling (don’t forget that you still have your reg and a tank full of air at anytime if you want to breath) changes everything. Your level of comfort changes everything. I am still in my Stress and Rescue training and what I was unable to do on my first course, I do it as easy as walking in the street now.
I think that we should be a little bit more open minded.

But where did spearfishing fit in all of this???

 

[Dody]

But where did spearfishing fit in all of this???

I never mentioned spearfishing . I don't leave anything underwater (except gas) and I don't take anything from it.