Buoyancy question how do you maintain a sitting hover?

[The Chairman]

I wonder how many other divers just go on diving feet heavy and haven't gotten it.

More than the starfish in the sea.

 

[johndiver999]

During my OW, AOW there was talk of keeping a logbook, PADI in my case, regarding Water temp, what exposure suit was worn, salt or fresh and how much weight was worn. I have done this. I don't recall any discussion of weight distribution for a particular dive. Also no discussion of how to modify weight distribution outside weight belt, integrated weight pockets and trim pockets.

I have been reading scubaboard quite a bit since August and did all the online reading of the OW, AOW and Rescue courses and don't recall any discussion of this. If there are a lot of feet heavy divers out there, seems like a subject that would benefit from more publicity and exposure.

I now have the knowledge to fix this problem. When I started this thread I did not. I wonder how many other divers just go on diving feet heavy and haven't gotten it.

Dive training is PERFECT and anyone who challenges that......

 

[Blackcrusader]

If you're built like a manatee, you get to dive like one.

I'm more like a walrus.

 

[MichaelMc]

During my OW, AOW there was talk of keeping a logbook, PADI in my case, regarding Water temp, what exposure suit was worn, salt or fresh and how much weight was worn. I have done this. I don't recall any discussion of weight distribution for a particular dive. Also no discussion of how to modify weight distribution outside weight belt, integrated weight pockets and trim pockets.

I have been reading scubaboard quite a bit since August and did all the online reading of the OW, AOW and Rescue courses and don't recall any discussion of this. If there are a lot of feet heavy divers out there, seems like a subject that would benefit from more publicity and exposure.

I'm not saying this gets done, but the Padi 2017 performance requirements for confined and open water include:
CW3:
"While neutrally buoyant, swim slowly in a horizontal position to determine trim. Adjust trim, as feasible, for a normal swimming position."

CW4 starts with:
"With a buddy, perform a weight check and adjust for proper weighting and trim."

CW5 the mini-dive includes:
"Do a weight and trim check."

OW1 underwater:
"Participate in a trim check."

OW2,3,4 at the surface:
"Adjust weighting and trim, as necessary.

I don't know that the student manual teaches about adjusting trim, what they mean by a "normal swimming position", nor if "as feasible" means "if your BC allows that". They also say "for a normal swimming position" not "normal hover position". I also have not seen much in various manuals on the options for redistributing weights nor many diagrams on it.

The Peak Performance Buoyancy Adventure Dive has:
"Position and distribute the weight for comfort and desired body position (trim) in the water."
"Reposition weights as appropriate to adjust trim, and hover in different positions - vertical, horizontal, feet elevated and head elevated."

This gets at the balanced weight distribution most exactly, as that will be difficult without a balanced weight distribution.

 

[FishWatcher747]

Of the 4 core principles of diving, trim should be a principle that everyone should get. But it may need the instructor to throw a couple of ankle weights over the cylinder neck to achieve in many people.

This is the order of gaining proficiency in the 4 core principles for me.

1. Propulsion. I've been swimming since childhood and had already been a snorkeler. I know there is more to it like frog kick, back kick, helicopter, but most people know how to flutter kick.

2. Buoyancy control. Started learning this the first dive, and progressed rapidly to proficiency. Always room for improvement.

3. Breathing. This is hard. First 35 dives was an air hog. Had to work hard at diaphragm breathing and dive a lot to reduce anxiety.

4. Trim. Yes this is the last skill to be mastered. Should be more of a surface demonstration of how to distribute weight by an instructor including more than moving weights around in weight belts, integrated weight belts and trim pockets. Really not an in water skill. In water is just to verify whether your surface weight distribution was effective. I don't see this being taught properly.

 

[Colliam7]

I wonder how many other divers just go on diving feet heavy and haven't gotten it.

If I were to offer an answer based on my personal observations at quarries and on ocean dives, it would have to be, 'A lot.' That isn't a criticism of them as people. They just do not necessarily know any better. Horizontal trim may not have been emphasized in their training. And, when their '45-er' orientation in the water stirs up a silt storm, that storm is usually behind them and they just don't see it.

In fact, they may actually 'feel' like they have good horizontal trim. I tell my students, 'If you feel like you are horizontal, you are probably 10-15 degrees 'head up'. If you feel like you are head down, chances are that you are horizontal.' Good trim does not come to them immediately. But, I also try to ensure that I periodically have them stop and look behind them, to point out their silt trails, so they better understand one of the reasons that trim (as well as finning technique) is emphasized to the extent that it is in their training.

 

[Ayisha]

...I know there is more to it like frog kick, back kick, helicopter, but most people know how to flutter kick.

When you say that most people know how to flutter kick, is that the typical diving whole leg flutter kick or the DIR/GUE flutter kick like the videos below show?

For me, the GUE flutter and modified flutter were almost as challenging to learn and execute consistently as the back kick.

 

[Coztick]

There was a couple I was drift diving with a few years ago.
They would hang vertically, holding hands and slowly finning the entire dive.
It was odd to see them appearing to head for the surface everytime I looked over but they weren't quite neutral so they would hover about 20 ft. from the bottom.
Very strange...

 

[Blackcrusader]

Of the 4 core principles of diving, trim should be a principle that everyone should get. But it may need the instructor to throw a couple of ankle weights over the cylinder neck to achieve in many people. This is the order of gaining proficiency in the 4 core principles for me.

1. Propulsion. I've been swimming since childhood and had already been a snorkeler. I know there is more to it like frog kick, back kick, helicopter, but most people know how to flutter kick.
2. Buoyancy control. Started learning this the first dive, and progressed rapidly to proficiency. Always room for improvement.
3. Breathing. This is hard. First 35 dives was an air hog. Had to work hard at diaphragm breathing and dive a lot to reduce anxiety.
4. Trim. Yes this is the last skill to be mastered. Should be more of a surface demonstration of how to distribute weight by an instructor including more than moving weights around in weight belts, integrated weight belts and trim pockets. Really not an in water skill. In water is just to verify whether your surface weight distribution was effective. I don't see this being taught properly.

Here I am filming my dive buddy was just the two of us on this dive.

We are on the way to a wreck dive at 34m depth and came across some bat fish. I have no clue as to how much air I used until really my last 250 dives when I went on a mission to record tank fills and dive times. As one person noted I have an unusually low air consumption rate and this dive buddy is slightly better than I am although he weighs nearly 2.5 times less than I do lol. One of the things that will improve your air consumption is reducing the amount of movements you need to make and getting trim and buoyancy correct. In the last several years of diving this was one of the most enjoyable dives I had. Got some great photos of rarely seen Sea Horses and other critters. Was also the longest timed dive I had done in my last 250 dives.

More diving and dive with people who can give you some tips and help you with adjusting weights and trim. You will find when properly weighted and have the weights in the best position for your body you can put yourself in any position with ease and not have to really work at doing it. It will come that you think the position you want to be in and your body adjusts to that position. It will become natural over many dives. I can switch from horizontal to sitting buddha easily and back. If some think it's showing off then yes maybe it is, but it shows other divers that they should be able to do the same and if they cannot then they need adjust the way they dive. You wrote that you sink when you try this... well add some air to the bcd that is what it is for. The weights should be correct for when you say have 40 bar in your tank, that is when you will float the most. You should be able to comfortably hold horizontal position at 5m or 3m or 2m and not float to the surface in an uncontrolled manner. You will be surprised how much less air you will consume from being properly trimmed and buoyancy mastered and not having to move around on dives. Let the water be your couch and carry you.

 

[The Chairman]

Of the 4 core principles of diving, trim should be a principle that everyone should get. But it may need the instructor to throw a couple of ankle weights over the cylinder neck to achieve in many people.

This is the order of gaining proficiency in the 4 core principles for me.

1. Propulsion. I've been swimming since childhood and had already been a snorkeler. I know there is more to it like frog kick, back kick, helicopter, but most people know how to flutter kick.

2. Buoyancy control. Started learning this the first dive, and progressed rapidly to proficiency. Always room for improvement.

3. Breathing. This is hard. First 35 dives was an air hog. Had to work hard at diaphragm breathing and dive a lot to reduce anxiety.

4. Trim. Yes this is the last skill to be mastered. Should be more of a surface demonstration of how to distribute weight by an instructor including more than moving weights around in weight belts, integrated weight belts and trim pockets. Really not an in water skill. In water is just to verify whether your surface weight distribution was effective. I don't see this being taught properly.

Actually, trim is first and foremost. Once you have trim, neutral buoyancy is easy. Once you have trim, propulsion becomes efficient. When you have efficient propulsion and are not stressed by being out of control, your SAC will be at its lowest. But trim must come first.