Making the leap: help choosing first rb

[JahJahwarrior]

Can I play devils advocate?
Padi Tec 40 CCR lists AOW, Enriched Air Diver, Deep Diver or with proof of 10 dives to 100 feet, and Rescue Diver.
If so, that's not a dig on the instructor for asking for it, it's a requirement of the Padi training.

I think most instructors work like this: If something happens and training is cancelled, the money is only refundable if they can fill that slot. If they can't, then you forfeit the money and have to pay again when you want to resume training. You are essentially hiring their time, not guaranteeing the results, because students can always fail, etc.

So you show up with this used rebreather and on day 2 there's an oring that fails on the canister, or an old loop that rips a bit, your flood recovery skills aren't perfect, unit ends up completely flooded in salt water. Solenoid corroded, o2 cells rusting, and worse, the jacks to plug them in, corrode. Unit has to be sent off for service, and your instructor can't rebook the time, now you are paying for the overpriced instruction twice.

Granted, that's a bit extreme and even a complete flood can probably be resolved without significant issue, but that's why I'm playing Devils Advocate

A better, middle of the road approach, would be for the instructor to say "buying a used unit comes with risks. Lets review as much as possible and I'll help you with the list of wear items that should be replaced like hoses, o2 sensors, orings, loop, etc. You can order the parts yourself, and for a half day's instruction fee I will go through the unit with you, teaching you how to replace those parts as we go."

That way you avoid an unnecessary service, but accomplish any necessary service.

If he uses an old fabric covered optima with hammerhead electronics, no wonder he's not a huge fan. Time for an upgrade!

 

[wedivebc]

@Zebra 1

Sounds to me like you need a new instructor. Also $1900 is about $400 too high for that course. In Florida you can get Mod1 all day long for $1500 from all of the instructors and if you buy a new O2ptima, most of those instructors do the course for free or close to it. Fun fact.

Let me remind you, once again that Florida is not the center of the universe and if you look at the number of dive centers and instructors found in that fine state it is easy to see why many RB manufacturers recommend (but not stipulate) that an entry level course should cost about $1500 for a group class and about $2000 for private lessons. When instructors start to undercut each others prices in order to stay competitive often the quality of training suffers. Those numbers will change depending location but to suggest that the OP's instructor is charging too much based on your geographical location is misleading.

 

[tbone1004]

Let me remind you, once again that Florida is not the center of the universe and if you look at the number of dive centers and instructors found in that fine state it is easy to see why many RB manufacturers recommend (but not stipulate) that an entry level course should cost about $1500 for a group class and about $2000 for private lessons. When instructors start to undercut each others prices in order to stay competitive often the quality of training suffers. Those numbers will change depending location but to suggest that the OP's instructor is charging too much based on your geographical location is misleading.

I know it's not, but I only mentioned it since he said he goes to the panhandle regularly. If we were talking about training up in your neck of the woods I wouldn't have brought it up

 

[divezonescuba]

There’s a guy in Bonaire that will do a private ccr40 class for $1500 and will rent you a unit for the course including consumables for another $400. That’s what I am planning to do as soon as Bonaire opens up. There are depth requirements for ccr 40. I’d rather train in the open ocean than a local Texas lake.

 

[Superlyte27]

Thanks again for all the replies. Our local instructor does not require us to buy the new units from him but is giving us a $500ea discount on our training if we do $1,900 - $500 on PADI Tec 40. He does not require a new unit but a used one needs to be sent in to the manufacturer and recertified. I spoke to him about Optima vs Prism. He sells and can train on both but strongly urges us to go with the Prism. He also dove the Optima for years (not sure what model). Some of his reasoning; 4th cell is not needed (I now agree), that the Prism is lighter and easier to travel with (International and in USA), that the Prism is more streamlined in the water and easier to operate. Of the 2 he much prefers diving with the Prism. He does not like that the Optima is not made by Dive Rite but had high praise for Divesoft.

On the new vs used most Prisms I see for sale that are only a few years old seem to go for around $6,000 so a savings of about $4,000 and still has to be sent in for service/repair and no warranty. Also since we are new to this having new valves, hoses, etc. that we know the history on is very appealing /comforting.

the optima is made by dive rite in Lake City. Take a tour. I’ve seen dozens upon dozens made there. It’s also smaller and lighter than the prism. Try to get both through the Henkel and you understand that pretty quickly, lol

 

[Superlyte27]

@Zebra 1 requiring them to be sent in and recertified is not something that should be necessary. I'd also seriously question ease of operation. They have identical electronics, so that's the same. If they have BMCL's with a BOV then that operation is exactly the same *though with the iBov it's even easier on the O2ptima*, so I'm not sure what he's talking about but it sounds like out of his ass... If he's talking about the pre DiveCAN O2ptimas with the Hammerhead electronics, then I agree with him, but those aren't part of this discussion. Also BS on more streamlined in the water.

Sounds to me like you need a new instructor. Also $1900 is about $400 too high for that course. In Florida you can get Mod1 all day long for $1500 from all of the instructors and if you buy a new O2ptima, most of those instructors do the course for free or close to it. Fun fact.

Actually, we’re forbidden from charging less than $1500 on an Optima class. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen. You can’t price fix in the US, but our agreement to be able to sell and teach on Optima is that we won’t teach for less than $1500. I won’t risk my relationship with Dive Rite to save you a few bucks. Sorry

 

[Superlyte27]

There’s a guy in Bonaire that will do a private ccr40 class for $1500 and will rent you a unit for the course including consumables for another $400. That’s what I am planning to do as soon as Bonaire opens up. There are depth requirements for ccr 40. I’d rather train in the open ocean than a local Texas lake.

I’ll do that deal any day you want in Florida.

 

[Superlyte27]

I’ll do that deal any day you want in Florida.

For that matter, I’ll do that deal in Bonaire as well. Bonaire is where I did my 500’ dive on the Optima.

 

[Zebra 1]

Yeah I know, I had my first trip to Bonaire scheduled for end of May was cancelled due to covid. I had my Genesis 1200 packed and ready to ship back to Jon for the battery upgrade. I was super jealous when I saw you went

I have my AOW with the instructor Saturday, I will ask him more about the Prism vs Optima and weather the unit he used had Hammerhead electronics.

I like the fact that most here seem to think the Optima seems to be built stronger, I assume this makes the Optima a better choice on a rocking boat?
How do the two compare in break down, cleaning and checklist procedures time?
Looks like the weight of the two is pretty similar, how about pack-a-ability for Airline flights?

We are not trying to go the cheapest rout on either training or equipment. I do think we are entitled to some discounts since we are buying and training two units, but both of us own our own businesses we understand value vs a cheap price.

I really appreciate all the comments, it's not only helping us decide but educating me at the same time!

 

[evandroairton]

If travelling is a matter, just adding fuel, why not consider a sidewinder? I'm using mine more and more, and it packs really well for traveling. Just that it require previous practice With SM (ALTHOUGH SOME PEOPLE ADAPTED IT FOR USING WITH BM TANKS - something i will Try anytime Just tô se e how it dives
Also a great friend is using the Triton and it seens to be a neat, very practical unit that cam be used with various harnesses and SM ir BM tanks. And packs really well to traveling