Who's the instructor? Depending on the config you're wanting, I've seen P2s go as low as $3500 w FMCL and the Hollis BOV (that I can't stand). Even with a ton of service upcharges, I'd be blown away if it's as expensive as your instructor is suggesting. The P2s with BMCL or both sets seem to trend towards the $5k range. 4th cell isn't really a selling point. Would still go with Optima between your two choices and would ensure you use the packable scrubber and not the prepackaged cartridge.
Making the leap: help choosing first rb
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Thank you for the reply. I'm sure that the instructors reasoning for new units is our safety, but also to increase his bottom line (which is fine everyone should make a profit).
I was thinking the 4th cell would be better but most of the replies here disagree. I thought the prepackaged cartridge would be better, other than the higher cost. Can you elaborate? What is it about the Hollis BOV that you don't like and do you like the iBOV that comes with the Optima? Thanks.
I was thinking the 4th cell would be better but most of the replies here disagree. I thought the prepackaged cartridge would be better, other than the higher cost. Can you elaborate? What is it about the Hollis BOV that you don't like and do you like the iBOV that comes with the Optima? Thanks.
The meg Tiburon has divecan Shearwater electronics, almost identical to that found on a Prism 2. I own and teach on both units but I think you will find the meg is a tougher build. Both units are well supported and have a long history of reliability but the meg is definitely better engineered and uses better build material.
The Prism has by far the worst customer support. There are far better units in terms of build quality, parts availability, and service.
Does your instructor sell the Prism? Teach anything BUT the Prism? You can go elsewhere for sure and I dont think I would ever suggest buying a first ever CCR new out of the box, there's a $4,000 depreciation as you rip the tape off the box and you might very well hate it.
Fyi, Dive Rite will broker a used optima for free, giving it a clean bill of health to the new owner as part of their awesome customer service.
You can buy a used optima in perfect working order for $4500 today. If you don’t believe me, I’ll sell you one of mine. I teach on many units. I’m certified on almost all of the popular ones. Optima is one of my favorites. Everyone I know who was diving a prism started selling them when Huish took over Hollis.
Its a giant red flag that an instructor requires you to buy from him. If he only teaches on one unit, of course he thinks it’s the best. The prism breathes awesome. That’s all it really has going for it. The JJ breathes like crap, but is awesome in every other way. And it’s the sexiest looking CCR out there.
Of your list, I’d do the Optima.
You can buy a used optima in perfect working order for $4500 today. If you don’t believe me, I’ll sell you one of mine. I teach on many units. I’m certified on almost all of the popular ones. Optima is one of my favorites. Everyone I know who was diving a prism started selling them when Huish took over Hollis.
Its a giant red flag that an instructor requires you to buy from him. If he only teaches on one unit, of course he thinks it’s the best. The prism breathes awesome. That’s all it really has going for it. The JJ breathes like crap, but is awesome in every other way. And it’s the sexiest looking CCR out there.
Of your list, I’d do the Optima.
Hope this can help.
I Had the Hollis prism OTSCL/FMCL it breaths great but scrubber was a pain, the build process and cleaning wasn’t easy - so much so I didn’t like using it. I sold the prism, bought an AP inspiration with FMCL, switched to BMCL and later a tech frame. The AP had larger threads on the connections, was easy assemble and disassemble, th AP scrubber was super easy to get right every time the first time.
I still use the AP and enjoy it. I have a BOV and temp stick on the AP, loved the temp stick at first and still use it, felt like the BOV was not needed for tec diving. Only thing I didn’t like with the AP, was it is bulky for travel. I considered moving to the JJ because the shearwater electronics but overall thought it wasn’t different enough from the AP. After a lot of consideration, I thought the JJ wouldn’t save me much time or effort during builds compared to the AP.
Watching my friends who had both Revo and JJ’s, doing multiple dives each weekend. I bought a Revo micro III. The micro III was lighter than everything I was looking at, it traveled easy, was extremely easy to clean and build. The scrubber was the absolute deciding factor. The Revo meets my diving needs perfectly, but I don’t cave dive. I dive deep wrecks, done ice diving, but I mostly dive in the tropical waters in South Florida. I use and recommend the NERD, not the Revo dreams.
After owning and diving the above rebreathers in wet suits and dry suits, the Revo is my favorite. It is simple (essentially 6 o rings to check), it is small and light, trims just as easy as the others.
I do have RMS, but it is not really needed.
I have also grown to appreciate the titanium box that protects the counter
Lungs. Both the AP and the Revo have great WOB for having BMCL, but my average time per dive is only about one and a half to two hours, sometimes three. So please understand- I don’t usually do 6 hour + dives like some of the other divers in here- other machines might be better for that. Flooding has never been an issue except for poor technique on my part, like bailing out drills and not fully closing dsv or failing to do a good negative check.
I Had the Hollis prism OTSCL/FMCL it breaths great but scrubber was a pain, the build process and cleaning wasn’t easy - so much so I didn’t like using it. I sold the prism, bought an AP inspiration with FMCL, switched to BMCL and later a tech frame. The AP had larger threads on the connections, was easy assemble and disassemble, th AP scrubber was super easy to get right every time the first time.
I still use the AP and enjoy it. I have a BOV and temp stick on the AP, loved the temp stick at first and still use it, felt like the BOV was not needed for tec diving. Only thing I didn’t like with the AP, was it is bulky for travel. I considered moving to the JJ because the shearwater electronics but overall thought it wasn’t different enough from the AP. After a lot of consideration, I thought the JJ wouldn’t save me much time or effort during builds compared to the AP.
Watching my friends who had both Revo and JJ’s, doing multiple dives each weekend. I bought a Revo micro III. The micro III was lighter than everything I was looking at, it traveled easy, was extremely easy to clean and build. The scrubber was the absolute deciding factor. The Revo meets my diving needs perfectly, but I don’t cave dive. I dive deep wrecks, done ice diving, but I mostly dive in the tropical waters in South Florida. I use and recommend the NERD, not the Revo dreams.
After owning and diving the above rebreathers in wet suits and dry suits, the Revo is my favorite. It is simple (essentially 6 o rings to check), it is small and light, trims just as easy as the others.
I do have RMS, but it is not really needed.
I have also grown to appreciate the titanium box that protects the counter
Lungs. Both the AP and the Revo have great WOB for having BMCL, but my average time per dive is only about one and a half to two hours, sometimes three. So please understand- I don’t usually do 6 hour + dives like some of the other divers in here- other machines might be better for that. Flooding has never been an issue except for poor technique on my part, like bailing out drills and not fully closing dsv or failing to do a good negative check.
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The theory is that a fourth cell gives you another validation point to check if the three cells that are driving the unit with voting logic, make sense or not, another data point to validate against. But it also adds another data point to have to validate against. The fourth cell is just as likely to have an issue as the other three, the only difference is a fourth cell failure doesn't require flying manually.
It's also an added expense and gives some divers an excuse to wait longer to swap cells because they view it as a failsafe. I remember Rich Courtney exiting Ginnie with a dimly glowing backup light. One of the 6 backup lights he had with him, all of which had dead batteries, because "with 6 backup lights it's ok if I skimp on the maintenance"
In open water training, cell validation is covered but the end result will often be: bailout and surface. In short, the fourth cell is not a reason to buy or avoid any rebreather. If you don't have one and you want to feel good, you have reasons to. If you have one and you want to feel good, you have reasons to.
Cartridges are double the price of sorb and not always available, but they are flood tolerance with no packing, channeling or dust risks. But sorb is cheap and easy to use. Personally, if I know I will get less than 3 hours on some sorb, or I'm doing 2 dives that add up to more than 5 hours, I use sorb and dump it. If it works out to use a cartridge, then I use them.
I would ask the instructor, if those used prisms all require an expensive service after a few years, will your shiny new one also have an expensive failure in a few years?
It's also an added expense and gives some divers an excuse to wait longer to swap cells because they view it as a failsafe. I remember Rich Courtney exiting Ginnie with a dimly glowing backup light. One of the 6 backup lights he had with him, all of which had dead batteries, because "with 6 backup lights it's ok if I skimp on the maintenance"
In open water training, cell validation is covered but the end result will often be: bailout and surface. In short, the fourth cell is not a reason to buy or avoid any rebreather. If you don't have one and you want to feel good, you have reasons to. If you have one and you want to feel good, you have reasons to.
Cartridges are double the price of sorb and not always available, but they are flood tolerance with no packing, channeling or dust risks. But sorb is cheap and easy to use. Personally, if I know I will get less than 3 hours on some sorb, or I'm doing 2 dives that add up to more than 5 hours, I use sorb and dump it. If it works out to use a cartridge, then I use them.
I would ask the instructor, if those used prisms all require an expensive service after a few years, will your shiny new one also have an expensive failure in a few years?
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