Making the leap: help choosing first rb

[tbone1004]

Cartridges are double the price of sorb and not always available, but they are flood tolerance with no packing, channeling or dust risks. But sorb is cheap and easy to use. Personally, if I know I will get less than 3 hours on some sorb, or I'm doing 2 dives that add up to more than 5 hours, I use sorb and dump it. If it works out to use a cartridge, then I use them.

I would ask the instructor, if those used prisms all require an expensive service after a few years, will your shiny new one also have an expensive failure in a few years?

cartridges also have a lot of single use plastic involved which a lot of people are against, so that's another ding against them.

@Zebra 1 the point above the service is valid. There are several threads on here about the running costs of CCR's, but if you buy a used CCR you should MAX have the following service costs.
Rebuild 2x first stages, ADV if applicable, and DSV/BOV. Roughly $200
Hydro/VIP/Rebuild valves on the onboard bottles-$100
Replace Cells-$250
Replace Batteries-$5 to $20 depending on unit, rechargeable, the idiotic Meg battery packs, etc.
MAYBE replace the loop hoses but shouldn't have to -$100
Replace all o-rings-$100 ish

If the unit needed any other maintenance than it was seriously abused. There just isn't that much to go wrong. If the unit is old, like my meg was and had a lot of salty dives, the wiring can go a little funky on the cells which cost me another $100. All in, with some of the modifications in hose lengths and what not, I was in for about $1500 in "rebuild" on that unit. It was also more than 10 years old. You can buy them regularly for around $4k. A new tiburon is $11k, so for about half you are in for a used unit. Now the Tiburon is infinitely better with the DiveCAN on it instead of the abomination that is the 2.7 electronics, but you're talking about a DiveCAN unit. A used DiveCAN O2ptima comes up every 6 ish weeks for around $5k as @Superlyte27 said. With that you won't have the cost of reg rebuild/hydro/loop hoses, etc. and you'll have MAX $500 in service costs that you can DIY. More than half of that is new cells, and the o-ring kit is less than $100.

 

[wedivebc]

but he wants bmcl's which is why I didn't put it on my initial list, though the minnow lungs are close ish...

Frankly, I'd be concerned about ISC's customer service based on the last 2 years of track record. I do love mine though

I've been a meg owner for 16 years and have never had cause to complain about service. I didn't notice the BMCL requirement from the OP. I've never been a fan of BMCLs although I am liking my minnow CLs.

 

[rjack321]

I've been a meg owner for 16 years and have never had cause to complain about service. I didn't notice the BMCL requirement from the OP. I've never been a fan of BMCLs although I am liking my minnow CLs.

6 years and also never a service issue. Wayne hasn't been there that long but is doing a good job for the last year+ too

 

[Zebra 1]

Thanks again for all the replies. Our local instructor does not require us to buy the new units from him but is giving us a $500ea discount on our training if we do $1,900 - $500 on PADI Tec 40. He does not require a new unit but a used one needs to be sent in to the manufacturer and recertified. I spoke to him about Optima vs Prism. He sells and can train on both but strongly urges us to go with the Prism. He also dove the Optima for years (not sure what model). Some of his reasoning; 4th cell is not needed (I now agree), that the Prism is lighter and easier to travel with (International and in USA), that the Prism is more streamlined in the water and easier to operate. Of the 2 he much prefers diving with the Prism. He does not like that the Optima is not made by Dive Rite but had high praise for Divesoft.

On the new vs used most Prisms I see for sale that are only a few years old seem to go for around $6,000 so a savings of about $4,000 and still has to be sent in for service/repair and no warranty. Also since we are new to this having new valves, hoses, etc. that we know the history on is very appealing /comforting.

 

[McGlencoe]

What is the more common RBs used in your area? Not by your instructor, but by those actively diving in your area. It is nice to know locals who dive the same units.

Is there anyway you can get some test/demo dives with various units to see what you like? I did two different demo dives before choosing, first demo was a rEvo and Meg, the second one was rEvo, Meg, JJ and Optima.

Here is a write-up from one of those test dive days: Northwest Divers Enjoy a Rebreather Demo Day
​

Was really leaning towards a Meg, ended up going with a rEvo after seeing them dissected, prepped and then diving and breathing them. It is also a very popular unit up here in the NW, so it has been nice to have other rEvo owners out there to ask Qs. To me, the easy set-up of the rEvo and the sorb saving benefits of the dual scrubber baskets were the big winner.

The most popular units up here seem to be Meg, rEvo and JJ. I know a few people who have gone from Meg, JJ, and Prism to rEvo and know of a couple that changed their Megs over to what they call Revoladons by changing out to BMCL and MAV blocks.

For cells, I run 4, figuring RB diving is going to be more expensive anyway, big deal on another $80.00 for the 4th cell. The extra safety measure is nice, I run 3 on the Predator on my arm and the 4th on the Nerd. Nice to have the backup computer on a completely different cell. However also know a few people that only run 3 cells.

 

[tbone1004]

@Zebra 1 requiring them to be sent in and recertified is not something that should be necessary. I'd also seriously question ease of operation. They have identical electronics, so that's the same. If they have BMCL's with a BOV then that operation is exactly the same *though with the iBov it's even easier on the O2ptima*, so I'm not sure what he's talking about but it sounds like out of his ass... If he's talking about the pre DiveCAN O2ptimas with the Hammerhead electronics, then I agree with him, but those aren't part of this discussion. Also BS on more streamlined in the water.

Sounds to me like you need a new instructor. Also $1900 is about $400 too high for that course. In Florida you can get Mod1 all day long for $1500 from all of the instructors and if you buy a new O2ptima, most of those instructors do the course for free or close to it. Fun fact.

 

[rddvet]

@Zebra 1 requiring them to be sent in and recertified is not something that should be necessary. I'd also seriously question ease of operation. They have identical electronics, so that's the same. If they have BMCL's with a BOV then that operation is exactly the same *though with the iBov it's even easier on the O2ptima*, so I'm not sure what he's talking about but it sounds like out of his ass... If he's talking about the pre DiveCAN O2ptimas with the Hammerhead electronics, then I agree with him, but those aren't part of this discussion. Also BS on more streamlined in the water.

Sounds to me like you need a new instructor. Also $1900 is about $400 too high for that course. In Florida you can get Mod1 all day long for $1500 from all of the instructors and if you buy a new O2ptima, most of those instructors do the course for free or close to it. Fun fact.

I think his instructor’s trying to cover his own ass.

I agree there’s some red flags in what he’s saying his instructor requires and it seems a little bit like the instructor is somehow looking to make a few bucks on the unit as well. If I were him I’d interview some other instructors once he decides on a unit.

 

[sea_ledford]

By chance is this instructor working out of Oceanic Ventures? Not a problem if he is, they are one of the only full tech support shops in the area.

But their clientele is distinctly high end, to say the least. I was talking to them about doing some tech class or another, ANDP instuctor maybe? Anyway, they were happy to do it and the course fee wasn't too high, considering it would be local, rather than having to travel to Florida. Great, sign me up! I then had my choice of locations; Aruba in a week or the following month in Truk. Uh... I'll just go to Florida, thanks!

Again, no dig on their business model, great work if you can get it! But it seems that an extra $3-5K in costs is insignificant to their primary clients.

 

[Zebra 1]

Full disclosure they are going to reimburse me for my prerequisites PADI Advanced Open Water $249 and Rescue $299. Not happy with PADI for requiring Advanced Open Water, there was no such thing when I trained in the 70's, but I always learn and get somthing out of any class. I do like Florida and where we stay in Pensacola is not far from Vortex Springs. I know a lot of tech training is done there.

 

[rddvet]

Full disclosure they are going to reimburse me for my prerequisites PADI Advanced Open Water $249 and Rescue $299. Not happy with PADI for requiring Advanced Open Water, there was no such thing when I trained in the 70's, but I always learn and get somthing out of any class. I do like Florida and where we stay in Pensacola is not far from Vortex Springs. I know a lot of tech training is done there.

So you have to take adv OW and rescue in order to do their PADI rebreather course? But they're reimbursing you for it? That seems odd and a really good reason to find another shop/instructor that isn't PADI. There's alot of oddities in what you're posting about this group imo. I'd be looking at some more options.