Dual Bladder Wings - A Good Choice for Redundancy?

[divezonescuba]

True story..

I have a YouTube video on k type inflators. I would like to update it on the types of failures the k type inflator can experience.

Could you provide some additional details on the inflator?

Was this one of those $16.95 replacement inflators?

Had it been disassembled for service prior?

Was it the one with the plastic socket or metal hex head underneath the deflate button?

What is original to the wing and what type of wing is it?

 

[MichaelMc]

So... I'm not a GUE expert, but I can at least analyze arguments.

with a drysuit you have comfort and will never get a ticket to davy jones locker because you mixed up dual bc inflator hoses while on a roaring descent

Why are you mixing up inflator hoses? That sounds like a training problem.
You're proposing an equipment solution (dry suit) for a training problem (inflator confusion).
Isn't this the usual DIR argument against gear they do not use.

ETA: Now 'crappy cockpit + pilot crash = blame pilot for failure to follow complex procedure' is not a good plan. But 'inflator left that I always use' vs 'inflator right or stowed to side that I only test' is not very complex. Plus I can hear my inflator with my 10mm hood so I assume you can hear yours. Plus giving up the easy to dive wetsuit for a drysuit seems an increase in complexity.

I never said it’s the only way.
If you think about it, its the only safe way.

So... It's not the only way, but it is the only way...?

To dive safely to deeper depths....AND come back, you want as many good things going for you as possible and that includes diving a balanced lighter rig.

1) Few argued against a balanced rig.
2) "As many good things ... as possible", so you are diving under a Dive support vehicle, right?
I'm not saying a DSV is the only way, but if you think about it... (see quote two)

Who cares about how much lift a drysuit will give you? You don’t have that problem because you’re diving a balanced rig, aren’t you?

1) So, who cares if gear X has enough lift for a role we claim for it??
2) If we are balanced, we need worry about neither drysuit nor dual wing...

But if we aren't balanced, we still don't care if the dry suit has suitable lift??

 

[SoloMonkey]

I use a Dive Rite Super WIngs with my ye olde early noughties transpac.

I like the idea of the Dual bladder as when wetsuit diving it can be ideal to balance the rig by putting a little bit of air in both. Ultimately because of the centre of lift being one behind the other, you may get still a little "rocking couple" of the two areas of lift concentration being slightly out of phase with each other.

For the most part though when in a drysuit I'll use the left hose as most people do so it makes for easy CBL rescues and the right hand inflator doubles as my drysuit for here in the UK. I.e. for the most part 3 complete inflator hoses is a bit of overkill.

Both are driven from a Poseidon regulator on a relatively short hose, so GI3 can stick that in his pipe and smoke it, I'm a British diver and we do things our way.

 

[kensuf]

I have a YouTube video on k type inflators. I would like to update it on the types of failures the k type inflator can experience.

Could you provide some additional details on the inflator?

Was this one of those $16.95 replacement inflators?

Had it been disassembled for service prior?

Was it the one with the plastic socket or metal hex head underneath the deflate button?

What is original to the wing and what type of wing is it?

1. No, it was the stock inflator that came on the wing.
2. No, it hadn't been disassembled.
3. I don't know -- the assembly came apart and I tossed it in the garbage when I replaced it.
4. Halcyon Evolve wing.

 

[kensuf]

I’m sure people do dive deeper than 30m with more than one tank without a drysuit but again just because people do it, does not mean it’s good practice. It’s not about what they recommend, you’re just putting a name of an agency you don’t like on a practice you don’t like- (use a drysuit for deeper dives and **** the dual bladder!)

It’s not GUE specific so please don’t label it falsely, there is really no need to bring this into the thread. People can spend “their limited hobby money” however they please but many take GUE training to become more advanced divers. Besides, I don’t think diving is the sport where you want to budget with lifesupport equipment. They need the right gear for the right job, to do it safely and most solid dive equipment does meet GUE requirements.

How is there more failure points on a drysuit? You’re wearing it already. It is effectively a big gas bladder. It has one inlet valve, one outlet valve. It literally couldn’t be any simpler.

I dive deeper than 30m in a wetsuit all the time. If I don't get blown out by Darien this weekend, I'll be diving wrecks in 60m of water on both Saturday and Sunday. It's about having a balanced rig, not the depth of the dive.

 

[BlueTrin]

That's something people should be testing in a given configuration. I know mine can provide neutral buoyancy in fresh water with cave filled LP120s, a steel backplate, and two full 32% AL80s. That's about as heavy as my configuration will ever get. I feel a bit like the michelin man, but it works. Thicker undergarments will help with this as well.

I was wondering about this, won’t you burp air at the neck ?

I have never done that kind of complex dives with heavy equipment so it is a genuine question.

 

[sea_ledford]

I haven't read through the entire thread, so this might have been covered already, but adding another inflator adds more gear complexity and possible failure points than a drysuit inflator.

Last week I was teaching an ANDP class, everyone was in wetsuits, one student was in double steel 107's (108?, something like that... about the size of an HP 100), everyone else was in al 80's. During the rescue portion, the diver in steels was the victim, and his rescuer either pulled a little too hard on the inflator mechanism, or it was just coincidental timing, but the whole head of the inflator was pulled off of the corrugated hose. Instant loss of all buoyancy. This happened right after regs were removed to check breathing. We were only in about 10 feet of water at that point, so ultimately a non issue, but in deep water it would have been more interesting. In a real rescue it would have been a fatality (if it wasn't already). Diver in steels swapped to al 80 for the rest of the class.

 

[helodriver87]

I was wondering about this, won’t you burp air at the neck ?

I have never done that kind of complex dives with heavy equipment so it is a genuine question.

Sometimes, yeah. Especially if you have to go head up. But it's enough in a pinch.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

I dive a dry suit with LP104s, without a redundant wing. However, I’m not all in on the dry suit as a back up for the wing.

A dry suit is not designed to replace a wing and I don’t think it’s nearly as reliable for that purpose. A wing failure is a pretty rare event, but a wrist or neck seal failure is a lot more common, especially if the suit is being overinflated to compensate for a failed wing.

So, while I don’t dive a redundant wing, I can certainly understand why someone would. I think that diver is being a more cautious/careful diver and that’s not something to argue against, especially on the basis that said diver will somehow not operate the wing correctly. That’s a strawman...

 

[bakodiver391]

Not this old dead horse again. Diving dry with aluminum tanks is idiotic and unworkable for the type of diving I do. Steel tanks and a redundant bladder are a good fit. Steel tanks and a wetsuit are idiotic for the style of diving others do, and a balanced rig and drysuit are a good fit. There, argument over.