Dual Bladder Wings - A Good Choice for Redundancy?

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Are you diving wet in NY state in doubles? As I described earlier, its almost impossible to not be able to swim up a single tank in any wetsuit (even 7mm) from recreational depths ~100ft. If you can swim it up, you don't need a redundant bladder.

I would not advise a single tank below recreational depths.

If you are diving doubles, in a thick wetsuit, that would not be a good idea for more than just the redundant bladder issue.

Lots of people dive deeper than 100 ft with more than 1 tank without a drysuit. It may not be what GUE would recommend, but lots of people don't take GUE training and/or prefer to spend their limited hobby money on actual diving than to spend it buying gear that costs them 3-4 years worth of diving expenses so they could meet some GUE standards they're probably not aware of (having never done any GUE course).

A double bladder wing, and training on using it as redundant buoyancy, is considered a positive thing by many divers/diving organizations.

Many would argue that there are more failure points on most drysuits than there are on a second bladder in a wing. And "more things to fail" seems to be the only logical objection to a double wing I've seen in this thread so far.
 
True story..

Shift happens.

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This happened to me on a dive yesterday, rendering my inflator mechanism a constant dump mechanism.

The wing was able to still hold air as long as I maintained trim, just adding was a bit challenging. My drysuit provided adequate redundant lift that I was able to hold my 40', 30', 20' and 10' stops with no problem.

Balanced rig is your best option.
 
Lots of people dive deeper than 100 ft with more than 1 tank without a drysuit. It may not be what GUE would recommend, but lots of people don't take GUE training and/or prefer to spend their limited hobby money on actual diving than to spend it buying gear that costs them 3-4 years worth of diving expenses so they could meet some GUE standards they're probably not aware of (having never done any GUE course).

A double bladder wing, and training on using it as redundant buoyancy, is considered a positive thing by many divers/diving organizations.

Many would argue that there are more failure points on most drysuits than there are on a second bladder in a wing. And "more things to fail" seems to be the only logical objection to a double wing I've seen in this thread so far.

I’m sure people do dive deeper than 30m with more than one tank without a drysuit but again just because people do it, does not mean it’s good practice. It’s not about what they recommend, you’re just putting a name of an agency you don’t like on a practice you don’t like- (use a drysuit for deeper dives and **** the dual bladder!)

It’s not GUE specific so please don’t label it falsely, there is really no need to bring this into the thread. People can spend “their limited hobby money” however they please but many take GUE training to become more advanced divers. Besides, I don’t think diving is the sport where you want to budget with lifesupport equipment. They need the right gear for the right job, to do it safely and most solid dive equipment does meet GUE requirements.

How is there more failure points on a drysuit? You’re wearing it already. It is effectively a big gas bladder. It has one inlet valve, one outlet valve. It literally couldn’t be any simpler.
 
I’m sure people do dive deeper than 30m with more than one tank without a drysuit but again just because people do it, does not mean it’s good practice. It’s not about what they recommend, you’re just putting a name of an agency you don’t like on a practice you don’t like- (use a drysuit for deeper dives and **** the dual bladder!)

It’s not GUE specific so please don’t label it falsely, there is really no need to bring this into the thread. People can spend “their limited hobby money” however they please but many take GUE training to become more advanced divers. Besides, I don’t think diving is the sport where you want to budget with lifesupport equipment. They need the right gear for the right job, to do it safely and most solid dive equipment does meet GUE requirements.

How is there more failure points on a drysuit? You’re wearing it already. It is effectively a big gas bladder. It has one inlet valve, one outlet valve. It literally couldn’t be any simpler.

Okay, let's ignore agencies. The fact is that a dual bladder and a drysuit both result in redundant buoyancy. Beyond the fact that both have two valves, I've never seen a second bladder that had wrist seals, neck seal, pee valves, wrist dumps, or zippers that could fail on a dive to my knowledge.

You're welcome to think that a dry suit is the only way to safely dive below XX ft, but I can't find any logical reason to support that conclusion with the information I've seen posted here. Many people do lots of things to become more advanced divers, and GUE is far from the only path towards advanced diving.

Also, I never said I'm against diving dry (I probably wouldn't have been diving in my drysuit this weekend if it was a practice I didn't like), I said it's not the ONLY way to do dive safely with redundant buoyancy.

Speaking of buoyancy, what is the buoyancy rating of your drysuit by the way, and where can I look that up so I can be sure it has adequate buoyancy for the dive being done in case the wing fails?
 
Speaking of buoyancy, what is the buoyancy rating of your drysuit by the way, and where can I look that up so I can be sure it has adequate buoyancy for the dive being done in case the wing fails?

That's something people should be testing in a given configuration. I know mine can provide neutral buoyancy in fresh water with cave filled LP120s, a steel backplate, and two full 32% AL80s. That's about as heavy as my configuration will ever get. I feel a bit like the michelin man, but it works. Thicker undergarments will help with this as well.
 
I may have missed it, but has anyone mentioned the additional issue of achieving positive buoyancy in a head-up/out-of-trim position with drysuit-only buoyancy once back on the surface? I am in the camp that uses a drysuit as redundant buoyancy, but this issue has been raised by the other camp as part of their argument, and it's certainly reasonable. If you're relying on a drysuit as redundant buoyancy, you might want to carry a lift bag or extra large SMB to help float you while waiting for a boat to pick you up. Not applicable to cave divers, I suppose.
 
Okay, let's ignore agencies. The fact is that a dual bladder and a drysuit both result in redundant buoyancy. Beyond the fact that both have two valves, I've never seen a second bladder that had wrist seals, neck seal, pee valves, wrist dumps, or zippers that could fail on a dive to my knowledge.

Anything can fail on any piece of equipment but with a drysuit you have comfort and will never get a ticket to davy jones locker because you mixed up dual bc inflator hoses while on a roaring descent. I’d say that counts.
 
You're welcome to think that a dry suit is the only way to safely dive below XX ft, but I can't find any logical reason to support that conclusion with the information I've seen posted here. Many people do lots of things to become more advanced divers, and GUE is far from the only path towards advanced diving.

I never said it’s the only way.

If you think about it, its the only safe way. I have dived steel D12s to 20m in a wetsuit while on holidays but that’s as far as I would go (and even then I was way overweighted). To dive safely to deeper depths....AND come back, you want as many good things going for you as possible and that includes diving a balanced lighter rig.

You’re the one who brought agencies into this (I’m not sure why) and please don’t put words in my mouth, I never said GUE was the only way to become an advanced diver, I said many divers take GUE training to become advanced divers and that doesn’t imply I think it’s the only way. It’s not.
 
Also, I never said I'm against diving dry (I probably wouldn't have been diving in my drysuit this weekend if it was a practice I didn't like), I said it's not the ONLY way to do dive safely with redundant buoyancy.

Speaking of buoyancy, what is the buoyancy rating of your drysuit by the way, and where can I look that up so I can be sure it has adequate buoyancy for the dive being done in case the wing fails?

If you have a drysuit, why are you against using it? It’s easier than going out and buying a dual bc anyway... and much safer.

Who cares about how much lift a drysuit will give you? You don’t have that problem because you’re diving a balanced rig, aren’t you?
 
If you have a drysuit, why are you against using it? It’s easier than going out and buying a dual bc anyway... and much safer.

Who cares about how much lift a drysuit will give you? You don’t have that problem because you’re diving a balanced rig, aren’t you?


Well, it's not balanced if the drysuit can't provide enough lift for you to swim up the rig. That's difficult to achieve, but technically doable I guess.

Also, there's nothing wrong with technical dives in a wetsuit. You just need to be careful about weighting. AL80 doubles with trimix and a couple deco stages are still reasonably easy to swim up with an aluminum or CF plate. Longer exposures where you're dragging more gas or more deco bottles are probably going to be extensive enough that you'll want a drysuit, but you can easily and safely do trimix driving in a wetsuit.
 
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