Are dive computers making bad divers?

[DiveNav]

...... where is the popcorn smiley when you need it? .....

 

[phoenix31tt]

I believe that it is a paternalistic, ineffective, and indeed counterproductive strategy to withhold information that has a valuable safety purpose (in this case, properly timing a deco stop when a mistake was made and the NDL was exceeded), because of the possibility that the information may be misused (in this case, by a diver deliberately exceeding the limits of their training).

Dive computers don't withhold this information, which is how we started down this rabbit hole.

Really what more did you want?

Clearly states it's for no deco diving and still gave two contingencies depending on how much you exceeded your limits by...

You really wanted a RECREATIONAL dive planner to include deco depths and stops for them?

Safety information was not withheld... But it seems you did not notice it



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[BHB ScubaTroll]

...... where is the popcorn smiley when you need it? .....

I am with you... This is "Basic Scuba Discussions" and the information presented here should mostly be in another group... IJS

 

[The Chairman]

Dive computers don't withhold this information, which is how we started down this rabbit hole.

That doesn't stop divers from ignoring the information. If you won't pay attention to your depth gauge and watch, you probably won't pay attention to your PDC. You can't blame either tool for a diver's attention deficit.

 

[bergersau]

Much like digital cameras have improved the average photographer.

Every human gets narc'ed with depth. It's a given. That doesn't apply to a PDC. When they fail, it's usually in an epic manner. Nothing subtle about a PDC's failure. A human failure is far harder to detect... especially by the human involved.

For the most part - I agree with you.

However I encountered a 'subtle' failure mode on my Suunto Mosquito dive computer early this year. The pressure transducer failed in such a way that the computer was under reading the depth by 3m, based on my observations on the anchor line on the ascent. I can only assume the NDL calculations were off in accordance with the incorrect depth reading. This was a particularly insidious failure as the computer still appeared to be working correctly and on a deeper/longer dive I could easily have unintentionally omitted deco because of it.

That computer has now been permanently retired from further use.

 

[NAM001]

Though it is true that no object makes you bad at anything. It does offer the out for turning your dive over to a chip. If you are using a compass and you turn and the compass does not then you Question what it is telling you. My wife did that with her compass. she went in a perfect circle and came back to me. Then wondered how I got there and why she needed to learn to use a compass when I did not need one. NOt till then did she understand why you have to keep the compass level. It was quite a joke afterwards. I still ask her what her computer is set up for air or 32 and at first she did not know. she does now. So perhaps computers stifle one from becoming a better diver. Its human nature that if you are not sure you take the advice from anyone that will offer it. When its diving its the computer that is whispering in your ear. And when it says nothing it must mean there is nothing wrong...... It always gives the best advice it can for the criteria given it. Computers make to too easy to dive without knowing what you are doing. Kinda of like driving mainstreet in cruise control. Those that do that cant get a grip why so many others are causing you problems. Or better yet getting a ticket in the 45mph zone, when cruise was set on 60. Why did not it tell me I was in the city limits now.

 

[miketsp]

That doesn't stop divers from ignoring the information. If you won't pay attention to your depth gauge and watch, you probably won't pay attention to your PDC. You can't blame either tool for a diver's attention deficit.

I saw a perfect example of people not paying attention to their PDC (or thinking) some years ago. The group of about 10 divers did a first dive, square profile, to 42m with one DM and then after 1h of SI we jumped in at the second site with bottom at 24m but with a second DM that had sat out the first dive and who's PDC was zeroed in terms of N2 loading!
The DM went straight to the bottom and stayed there. After just a few minutes we started going into deco on our PDCs. Only three of us noticed this and started going shallower to stretch out the dive. The remainder of the group stayed at depth even though we made signals to them to look at their PDCs and come shallower every time they looked up and we got their attention. The DM was off in the front of the group oblivious to what was going on behind him.
To cut a long story short most of the group accumulated a significant deco obligation which wasn't paid off. The DM went white when I pointed out to him what had happened when he surfaced - he simply hadn't realized that the group had gone so deep on the first dive and had accumulated a significant N2 loading.
He just followed his (clean) PDC and didn't think.
To this day I don't know why we didn't end up with 7 people going for a chamber ride.

 

[The Chairman]

Or better yet getting a ticket in the 45mph zone, when cruise was set on 60. Why did not it tell me I was in the city limits now.

Whether it's your foot or electro mechanical in nature, a diver and driver have to know their limitations. Think of it as the Harry Callahan mind set of diving.

Diving is all about limitations. Air, depth and time are the most obvious. Just don't forget all the rest like skills, gear, training, physical and all the rest.

 

[NAM001]

you are 100% right on that... I like reagen's line trust but verify

Whether it's your foot or electro mechanical in nature, a diver and driver have to know their limitations. Think of it as the Harry Callahan mind set of diving.

Diving is all about limitations. Air, depth and time are the most obvious. Just don't forget all the rest like skills, gear, training, physical and all the rest.

 

[Neilwood]

For the most part - I agree with you.

However I encountered a 'subtle' failure mode on my Suunto Mosquito dive computer early this year. The pressure transducer failed in such a way that the computer was under reading the depth by 3m, based on my observations on the anchor line on the ascent. I can only assume the NDL calculations were off in accordance with the incorrect depth reading. This was a particularly insidious failure as the computer still appeared to be working correctly and on a deeper/longer dive I could easily have unintentionally omitted deco because of it.

That computer has now been permanently retired from further use.

I wonder if that particular issue is down to whether it was reading the right "type of water" ie was it set for the wrong type (ie fresh water when it should have been seawater or vice versa). This would possibly explain it reading the wrong depth for the pressure due to the density difference.

AFAIK all computers will base the loadings on the pressure so will always give the correct NDL/Deco.