American tourists kidnapped in Egypt on way to Sharm

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There is a big difference between random crime and a religious jihad with specific religious targets. (Christians)

I see the Unites States dept of State has warnings against American citizens traveling in Egypt and even official restrictions requiring making prior contact with the US embassy there prior to travel.

I don't see any warnings or restrictions by Egypt with it's citizens against travel to the US.
 
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It is pretty easy to say that Egypt today is not as stable and safe as Egypt as it was. Based on news accounts it appears to be getting worse. Perception is reality to many.
 
There is a big difference between random crime and a religious jihad with specific religious targets. (Christians)

Yes there is - so then I have to ask the question: Between the Frenchman who was killed in Sharm and the two Americans kidnapped on the drive to St. Catherine's, which was a religiously motivated attack? Neither. The Frenchman was killed in a crossfire between the police and Bedouin who were trying to rob a Bureau de Change, and the Americans were kidnapped by Bedouin who were demanding the release of prisoners captured after the 2004 bombing in Taba. Umm - none of these people was targeted because of their religion.

There has been recent violence between Egyptian Christians and Egyptian Muslims - far, far away from any tourist resort. The inter-religious battle has raged for hundreds of years, not just because the government was overthrown last year - and there are some excellent pictures from Tahrier square last year which show a coptic christian holding a cross, arms linked with a muslim carrying the Q'ran.

in 1997, 60 tourists were shot dead in Luxor, in 2004 Sharm was bombed and 88 people killed... Total number of foreigners killed by Egyptians since the Jan 25th Revolution: 1. By accident.

It is pretty easy to say that Egypt today is not as stable and safe as Egypt as it was. Based on news accounts it appears to be getting worse. Perception is reality to many.

Unstable, yes... unsafe? Read above. Which news reports are saying it's becoming less safe for tourists? The fighting is between the various political factions, there is no religious jihad against westerners, but because a crime has been committed and it was reported on the news, the whole country has become unsafe for tourists to visit? Really? It would be pretty easy for me to say that all cars are blue, if I have only ever seen one car, which was blue in colour. Doesn't make it true.

Is perception reality? Apparently so - since so many people think Egyptian resorts are havens for jihadists waiting to pounce on unsuspecting western tourists well then of course it MUST be true, despite the fact that I live there, in a neighbourhood populated mostly by Egyptians, where a christian church and an Islamic Mosque lie withing approximately 100 metres of each other, and both about 100metres from my apartment. My perception therefore, since I have not been shot, kidnapped or burgled, is that actually it's quite safe in Egypt.

The US department of homeland security just refused a British couple entry to America because of a fun Twitter post about "digging up Marylin and destroying America", a reference, I believe, to the US TV show "Family Guy". Is it my perception, after having read this article, that Americans have no sense of humour and all jokes are forbidden? Is that reality? If they can do something so ridiculously daft, should I believe the state department when it says that it's dangerous to travel to Egypt?

During the various conflicts in the middle east, thousands of civilians have been killed by western military action... rightly or wrongly therefore, do a lot of people in the middle east think Americans or Europeans are all bad people? You bet your backside they do - just like lots of westerners hear the word "Muslim" and think "terrorist". What's the reality? Are Americans all Evil? Are all Muslims terrorists? No, of course not - but some people will think that way regardless of the facts that are presented to them.

The major difference is that the majority of people in the Middle Eastern countries are poor, uneducated, have little access to the Internet, and are fed propaganda by the state TV. Most "westerners" on the other hand, do indeed have that access, but instead of asking for themselves, they simply believe everything that is reported on the Rupert Murdoch News Channels - oooh it's on Fox - it must be true!

It's soooo frustrating to be told by people who have no access to Egypt other than what's reported in the media that the country is now unsafe, yet I live and work amongst these folks and whilst I am by no means a world authority on Egypt, it would be nice if people looked a little deeper than the headlines before drawing conclusions....

Cheers,

C.
 
Yes there is - so then I have to ask the question: Between the Frenchman who was killed in Sharm and the two Americans kidnapped on the drive to St. Catherine's, which was a religiously motivated attack? Neither. The Frenchman was killed in a crossfire between the police and Bedouin who were trying to rob a Bureau de Change, and the Americans were kidnapped by Bedouin who were demanding the release of prisoners captured after the 2004 bombing in Taba. Umm - none of these people was targeted because of their religion.

There has been recent violence between Egyptian Christians and Egyptian Muslims - far, far away from any tourist resort. The inter-religious battle has raged for hundreds of years, not just because the government was overthrown last year - and there are some excellent pictures from Tahrier square last year which show a coptic christian holding a cross, arms linked with a muslim carrying the Q'ran.

in 1997, 60 tourists were shot dead in Luxor, in 2004 Sharm was bombed and 88 people killed... Total number of foreigners killed by Egyptians since the Jan 25th Revolution: 1. By accident.



Unstable, yes... unsafe? Read above. Which news reports are saying it's becoming less safe for tourists? The fighting is between the various political factions, there is no religious jihad against westerners, but because a crime has been committed and it was reported on the news, the whole country has become unsafe for tourists to visit? Really? It would be pretty easy for me to say that all cars are blue, if I have only ever seen one car, which was blue in colour. Doesn't make it true.

Is perception reality? Apparently so - since so many people think Egyptian resorts are havens for jihadists waiting to pounce on unsuspecting western tourists well then of course it MUST be true, despite the fact that I live there, in a neighbourhood populated mostly by Egyptians, where a christian church and an Islamic Mosque lie withing approximately 100 metres of each other, and both about 100metres from my apartment. My perception therefore, since I have not been shot, kidnapped or burgled, is that actually it's quite safe in Egypt.

The US department of homeland security just refused a British couple entry to America because of a fun Twitter post about "digging up Marylin and destroying America", a reference, I believe, to the US TV show "Family Guy". Is it my perception, after having read this article, that Americans have no sense of humour and all jokes are forbidden? Is that reality? If they can do something so ridiculously daft, should I believe the state department when it says that it's dangerous to travel to Egypt?

During the various conflicts in the middle east, thousands of civilians have been killed by western military action... rightly or wrongly therefore, do a lot of people in the middle east think Americans or Europeans are all bad people? You bet your backside they do - just like lots of westerners hear the word "Muslim" and think "terrorist". What's the reality? Are Americans all Evil? Are all Muslims terrorists? No, of course not - but some people will think that way regardless of the facts that are presented to them.

The major difference is that the majority of people in the Middle Eastern countries are poor, uneducated, have little access to the Internet, and are fed propaganda by the state TV. Most "westerners" on the other hand, do indeed have that access, but instead of asking for themselves, they simply believe everything that is reported on the Rupert Murdoch News Channels - oooh it's on Fox - it must be true!

It's soooo frustrating to be told by people who have no access to Egypt other than what's reported in the media that the country is now unsafe, yet I live and work amongst these folks and whilst I am by no means a world authority on Egypt, it would be nice if people looked a little deeper than the headlines before drawing conclusions....

Cheers,

C.

I do understand your position but the news trend is definitely not your friend
 
I for one am no more willing to accept as "gospel" stories by major media outlets about the danger of visiting certain areas of the world, then I am to accept so called "first hand impressions" by a few folks with "local experience", saying: "come on in. The water's fine".

Now is a good time to do some personal risk assessment before visiting several areas of the world.

Fact, the region in question is in turmoil, and things appear to not be settling down really quickly, at least yet. Fact, in the midst of rapid social and political changes, any street, region or town that is completely safe for a toutrist to visit yesterday or today, may not be so tomorrow. Fact, Americans and some Europeans have been seen as ripe targets for making political statements, for holding for ransom and/or even valid targets of terror in more than a few places in the world recently.

These are simply facts. Does this mean it is extremely unsafe to visit Egypt? Uh, no, not necessarily. Does it mean that it is completely safe for us to visit Egypt right now? Same answer is true. Back to risk assessment.

From where I sit as one who has been thinking of visiting the region myself, I have decided that now is a good time to hold off and wait and see where all these changes lead. I might personally be willing to take such a gamble, but I would never expose others that I care for to such questionable risks, until I have more real information and recent history to base my decisions on.
 
And, as for Americans having no sense of humor: hey, we elected Barack Obama President, based solely on hope and his skin color. You can not tell me THAT is not humorous!

Now, as for the US State Department..... they have NO sense of humor what so ever, that is true.
 
And, as for Americans having no sense of humor: hey, we elected Barack Obama President, based solely on hope and his skin color. You can not tell me THAT is not humorous!

Now, as for the US State Department..... they have NO sense of humor what so ever, that is true.

:rofl3:
 
I was in Egypt about 2 weeks ago.

The locals were friendly and welcoming. I saw no evidence of anyone wishing harm on anyone. To put things in perspective the UK had its first snowfall of the winter. I was more worried about the ice today than I would be going to Egypt.
 
Maybe all of that is true. But I work in DC. For a non-profit. And it is true that today Egyptian prosecutors decided to put 19 Americans on trial for their work with their nonprofits (including the son of the US Dept of Transportation secretary). Granted, mine is different work. But I know that with the diplomatic tensions generated by this most recent development, which includes the threat of the US cutting off about 1 billion in foreign aid to Egypt--including a lot of military aid controlled by generals now in charge. It stands to reason that Americans may be treated more as pawns in a political game (the same as these two women were, even though no one was hurt). While it might not be exactly foolish to go to Egypt now, there are thousands of places to dive on the planet. The question I would have is what is the compelling reason to go there NOW, with the facts and political trends as they are developing, when there are other options available. You are already there. You have connections, resources, and knowledge that no tourist could have--especially a first time tourist.

I do get it. I'm more comfortable going some places in DC than I would ever be comfortable in sending first time tourists--if no other reason than because I've "dived" that part of town before, and know better about how to get out. In other words, I'm living ("diving") within my knowledge, training, and comfort. In the same way that no one should be shamed into diving beyond their comfort level, if for any reason--any reason at all--someone feels uncomfortable traveling somewhere, that is their choice, right, and even obligation to themselves. And no one could know, given what is in the news right now, that Egypt will be stable and secure for tourism months from now--the planning horizon for anyone who is probably looking to go there now.
 
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