padi open water card,18 metre limit questions and is advanced worth it or needed

[buleetu]

hi all

im an open water card holder who regulary dives to about 20 metres, on occasion ive done dives to 30 metres but only for a few mintues because im always thinking in the back of my head that i shouldnt be this deep,,,

can anyone tell me what i will learn in an advanced open water course that will make it okay for me to dive to these depths safely, are there different skills involved or is the 18 metre limit with the ow card just there to get you to spend more money on the advanced course??

this is pretty much what ive been told by the place i dive with when im on holiday,,they say that diving is what gives me the stuff i need to be a good diver,,not an aow card!! do u agree>??

thanks everyone,,no flaming please

 

[dbulmer]

I'm sure you'll get plenty of replies but before anyone jumps in I'll give you one good reason for taking the course.

I'm assuming that your diving is done abroad?

When you go abroad you may have a holiday insurance policy whose small print states that you may dive to a depth equal to your certification level. If you were to exceed that limit you may find the insurance does not cover you (check your insurance policy and if you don't have any, get one!) - costs for a diving incident could run into a lot of serious money.

AN AOW will cover you to 30m and decent insurance policies should cover you, should the unthinkable happen.

 

[Lorenzoid]

If you do a search here using "AOW" or "Advanced Open Water" you'll find the question has been asked before, and there are many helpful and interesting responses. Among the various responses, I think the most sensible is that AOW will give you an opportunity to do some more dives in the care of an instructor--additional experience in a controlled environment in which you can ask questions--and of several different types, including a Deep Dive and a Night Dive, I believe. These additional dives may help give you the confidence to do more dives of these types yourself.

Certification cards and courses are useful, but the limit on how deep you "can" dive is ultimately only your own comfort level--comfort with your own training and experience, that is--and that of the dive operator who takes you out. For me, I did not feel particularly comfortable doing deep dives (say, 30m+) after having taken the AOW course. (If you do a search on "PADI Deep" you can see my latest question, which relates to whether it makes sense for me to take the PADI Deep Diver course.)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

hi all

im an open water card holder who regulary dives to about 20 metres, on occasion ive done dives to 30 metres but only for a few mintues because im always thinking in the back of my head that i shouldnt be this deep,,,

can anyone tell me what i will learn in an advanced open water course that will make it okay for me to dive to these depths safely, are there different skills involved or is the 18 metre limit with the ow card just there to get you to spend more money on the advanced course??

this is pretty much what ive been told by the place i dive with when im on holiday,,they say that diving is what gives me the stuff i need to be a good diver,,not an aow card!! do u agree>??

thanks everyone,,no flaming please

Classes in general don't give you skills ... they teach you how to learn them. Attaining the skills requires diving.

People tend to take AOW for one of two reasons. Those fresh out of OW want more time with an instructor ... which is often an indication that their initial OW training didn't really achieve its objective of producing a diver who can comfortably plan and execute a dive without supervision. On the other hand, folks like yourself who have been out diving and are already comfortable diving unsupervised might be motivated by the access that an AOW card can provide when you go somewhere and want to do that deeper or more challenging dive.

My advice is that if you're planning to take AOW, shop around and talk to the instructor who's providing the class ... because more than any other class, AOW can be either a really satisfying experience or a total waste of time ... depending on how it's taught. The instructor who puts real effort into teaching will include some background information about each dive, telling you what the objectives of the dive are, explaining how to prepare for the conditions of the dive, and possibly helping you learn some equipment techniques such as DSMB deployment that make doing that kind of dive safer. Bonus points for any instructor who brings up gas management, which is to my concern the most important subject not generally discussed at any level of recreational diving.

On the other hand, if the instructor tells you that there's no real classwork ... that the class is just read the book and go diving ... don't waste your money ... all you'll get out of it is a few dives and a card. The book they make you buy is pretty anemic, and essentially just talks about stuff you were supposed to have learned in your OW class ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[scoobydrew]

Advanced training is totally relevant for the points listed above and more (in my opinion)

Things work differently at 30 meters than they do at 18, air runs out quicker, narcosis is stronger and it takes allot longer to come up safely to name but a few reasons, getting familiar with all this in the safety of an instructors care is definitely advisable.

Also as per previous post if you have insurance then your insurance is a waste of money as if you get in to trouble and it can be proved that you were deeper that you are certified to it becomes null and void. I think I'm right in saying that if your computer shows you went deep on a dive but then had an accident on a later dive that you were certified to do then the previous dives breaking your limit would render your insurance useless. Also you may want to have a think about your choice of dive resort, the fact that they are happy to take you beyond your training and advise against additional training is not really a good thing.

Also bear in mind your certification should enable you to dive independently of a dive professional to the limits you are certified to. My opinion is that if you want to go deep get certified to do so, there is more involved than just the dive. Also if you ever do go out deeper than trained without a guide in my honest opinion you are really starting to push your luck because of the points already listed.

 

[scoobydrew]

duplicated - sorry

 

[Didje]

Another thing to keep in mind: if you travel and intend to dive with a PADI resort/centre, they will (although not every resort/centre does that, unfortunately) check your C-card and your logbook.
If they see that you are not an AOW, they will put you in the OW group and you could miss out on some cool dive sites.
I was diving in Costa Rica in March '11, and even though I have close to 100 dives now they went through my logbook to see what I dives I had done, because some dives involved drifting and low viz, and also night dives (which are so cool!).
AOW will give you more confidence in your diving techniques, and the 5 different dives included are fun too!

 

[DevonDiver]

You aren't limited to 18m.

PADI recommend that newly qualified Open Water divers restrict their depth to 18m/60ft and, otherwise, dive within the limits of their training and experience.

Here is a reminder of what you were taught (note the phrasing):



Don't do the AOW course reluctantly because you percieve that it might be some sort of 'ticket' towards legitimate deep diving. Examine the course contents and talk with prospective instructors to determine what value you may get out of it. As a newly developing diver, a good instructor should be able to offer lots of value that will help you improve your scuba in many different aspects.

You did 4 dives on your OW course with an instructor, and made very excellent progress. Doing another 5 dives with a good instructor is likely to bring about an equally beneficial leap in ability.

 

[scoobydrew]

Devon diver, is that you tube clip definately from PADI material?
knowledge Review 4 is a lot less ambiguous:

9. Match the following by placing the correct letter in the blank.
a. Maximum depth limit for Open Water Divers.
c. Maximum depth limit for divers with training and experience beyond the Open Water Diver level.
b. Maximum depth limit for divers with Deep Diver training.
A 1 8 metres/60 f e e t B 4 0 m etres/13 0 f e e t C 30 metres/100 feet

I guess it depends if you consider training and experience beyond the Open Water Diver level as anything other than the AOW course

 

[fjpatrum]

Another thing to keep in mind: if you travel and intend to dive with a PADI resort/centre, they will (although not every resort/centre does that, unfortunately) check your C-card and your logbook.
If they see that you are not an AOW, they will put you in the OW group and you could miss out on some cool dive sites.
I was diving in Costa Rica in March '11, and even though I have close to 100 dives now they went through my logbook to see what I dives I had done, because some dives involved drifting and low viz, and also night dives (which are so cool!).
AOW will give you more confidence in your diving techniques, and the 5 different dives included are fun too!

While I'm not going to say you're completely wrong, not all PADI shops work this way. I've talked with no less than 10 shops that said if you want to do a deep(er) dive (say to 100 feet/30 meters or so) that they would just send someone with you on the first deep dive to make sure your skills are okay and they feel comfortable with you at that depth. Arguably that's significantly better than checking a C-Card but it's definitely not the same as "requiring" AOW to do a particular dive just because of depth.