Certified and Dangerous. Where do we go from here?

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Definitely hire a private instructor on Bonaire. Some easy dives with individual attention and no time constraints will help a lot and allow both of you to gain some confidence.

I will be on Bonaire with a large group from my LDS June 18-25. Looking forward to my first trip there.
 
ScooterTDI - Where in the USA are you located? Given a more specific location, there are plenty of folks on the board that might be able to meet you or make a recommendation to quality dive shops in your area.

We are in northern Virginia.

My girlfriend was offered some private pool assistance to help her get over it. She tried, but still had issues - mostly equipment based - fit of the mask, etc. After two sessions, she also found them unresponsive to scheduling. At that point she gave up entirely, which is sad, because the entire SCUBA idea was her dream.

So, stick with it. If it is not for your wife, don't push it. Nothing says she can't sit top-side with lunch waiting and a hug to warm you up.:D

I have no doubt that my wife will eventually get the hang of it. She rarely gives up on anything. During our first confined water training when she bolted for the surface twice during mask removal and replacement. After each time, she kept insisting to the instructor that she wanted to go back down and try again. Honestly, I am not sure that I would be so persistent after repeatedly taking huge breaths of water.

I really think you both could benefit alot from using snorkeling/freediving to gain much better awareness and propulsion skills in the water. The biofeedback is much better without tank and bc--you do something wrong or right, you can feel the tresults faster and more clearly when freediving/snorkeling.

I have been working with her on freediving in the pool and she has improved a lot, but she is still not great at it. Once she gets her legs under she tends to just wiggle them until she remembers to take slower, more controlled, strokes. As for biofeedback, I told her that she'll know when her kicks are working properly when she feels herself rocks side to side a little bit while underwater (or on the surface). I'm not strapping any weights to her for freediving until she demonstrates that she can reliably demonstrate good kicking technique when task loaded with other things. I've got a bit more experience and routinely take excursions to about 20-30' when snorkeling.
 
Did you go to Rawlings or Millbrook for check out dives?
 
We are in northern Virginia.

So, I'm assuming that the class was in Millbrook Quarry? So, cold and vis was probably 15 ft or so...ugh....

I will say that if I had been certified in Millbrook, and not the Red Sea (Aqaba) I probably would've given up on diving! Definitely try some shallow dives in Bonaire with a DM or instructor and see if that helps things along.

I can't comment on the quality of instruction, but when my wife and I certified together, she was definitely in the "I'm doing it to spend quality time with you" category. Unfortunately, due to some issues with the CESA drill, uncomfortable/leaky mask issues, and fledgling claustrophobia, she has not been interested in diving since.

EDIT: based on the timing and some of the LDS training calendars, I'm guessing it was Millbrook.
 
So, I'm assuming that the class was in Millbrook Quarry? So, cold and vis was probably 15 ft or so...ugh....

I will say that if I had been certified in Millbrook, and not the Red Sea (Aqaba) I probably would've given up on diving! Definitely try some shallow dives in Bonaire with a DM or instructor and see if that helps things along.

I can't comment on the quality of instruction, but when my wife and I certified together, she was definitely in the "I'm doing it to spend quality time with you" category. Unfortunately, due to some issues with the CESA drill, uncomfortable/leaky mask issues, and fledgling claustrophobia, she has not been interested in diving since.

EDIT: based on the timing and some of the LDS training calendars, I'm guessing it was Millbrook.

Yes, it was Millbrook. I have the philosophy that training under the bad conditions will leave you better prepared during good conditions, so in theory, I like the idea of training in the quarry. In this case, we probably would have struggled even under good conditions, so it was just too much and too quickly for us.
 
If I've hired an instructor, I'd take issue with his or her delegating tasks to a divemaster. It may be permitted by agency standards, but it's BS if you ask me.

I want to differ with this. For some things in the classes, doing them with a DM is not only permitted, but quite appropriate. DMs can't evaluate skills, so the instructor HAS to do that; if you have, for example, four students, the instructor can get two through the skills and then send them off "on tour" with the DM, while he does the next two. This keeps students moving (which helps keep them from getting cold) and also doesn't bunch the group up in one area, so that the visibility continues to degrade. It's the same with the nav swim -- this is specifically permitted to be done with a DM, and again, that can be the best experience for the student, because it minimizes sitting around in the water doing nothing. At least where we teach, cold tolerance is a MAJOR issue for students, who are often diving wet, and the less wasted time in the water, the more comfortable and happier they are.

I am very sorry to read the OPs posts. I was also a diver who thought she shouldn't have passed her OW class (read my journal) but who went on to become addicted to the sport and achieve a number of advanced certifications. It takes determination AND practice, and good guidance helps a lot.

One thing I'll pass along on kicking -- I HATE the full-leg flutter kick, and I never do it. NEVER. It requires a ton of strength in the hamstrings and gluteal muscles, and it's really tiring. PLUS it's a great way to silt out the environment. What NW Grateful Diver taught me, early on, was a modified flutter: Body flat from shoulders to knees, knees bent about 45 degrees, and the kick is done from the ankles, or ankles plus a little flex-extend of the knees. (The knees stay together, and the body stays flat.) You can get the feeling of this on a bench or table. This is a much easier kick, and plenty fast for most beginner diving. It definitely beats the bicycle kick!

I concur with the recommendation to get in the pool and work on learning to swim on scuba -- getting stable and quiet, and using the fins effectively, makes life much easier. Being more comfortable with neutral buoyancy and with equipment use frees up bandwidth to notice things like losing depth -- another thing that helps with that, a lot, is a wrist gauge that your wife can look at all the time. Checking depth every few seconds is much better than having to drag up a console to do it, as far as stability goes, at least in my opinion.

I would definitely consider posting in your local subforum to ask if there is anyone with experience who would be willing to go do some simple dives with you, as well. If I hadn't hooked up with NWGD on my 20th dive, I don't know that I would be diving today. Good mentorship is priceless.
 
I just completed my OW with a LDS with two friends this weekend. I agree that the training in such a short period of time seems rather lax especially if any trouble areas were to arise. The good about the OW lessons was they did provide us with the basic info to survive underwater. Where I felt it fell short was we only spent about 15 actual mins swimming underwater. I didn't connect with our instructor at all which didn't help. Sadly when just signing up at a LDS you are assigned a instructor rather than getting to meeting and say... I pick that guy he's my kinda guy.

We're booked for a trip to Coz in a few weeks and kinda feel we dont know much about the actual swimming buoyancy part. If I had it to do over again, personally I'd hire a private instructor to have taken the 3 of us out and been able to have spare time for a couple short dives to get to paddle around more.

Being in a similar boat, fresh off getting certified and having a few doubts, here is our plan: We called another dive shop that we have been buying our gear from. They said if we bought the rest of our gear there we could use their pool and practice whenever they didn't have classes. Which is normally a couple nights through the week. I gota say that makes me feel better right there. I can go buy my own gear which I wanted to do right away and then relax and at my own pace practice the skills we learned.
 
I want to differ with this. For some things in the classes, doing them with a DM is not only permitted, but quite appropriate. DMs can't evaluate skills, so the instructor HAS to do that; if you have, for example, four students, the instructor can get two through the skills and then send them off "on tour" with the DM, while he does the next two. This keeps students moving (which helps keep them from getting cold) and also doesn't bunch the group up in one area, so that the visibility continues to degrade. It's the same with the nav swim -- this is specifically permitted to be done with a DM, and again, that can be the best experience for the student, because it minimizes sitting around in the water doing nothing. At least where we teach, cold tolerance is a MAJOR issue for students, who are often diving wet, and the less wasted time in the water, the more comfortable and happier they are.

As someone who acts in that roll I consider you opinion more substantial than mine. However still I don't quite agree. If you can't run a class without involving additional less-qualified professionals, the class is perhaps too big.
 
All of this is completely unnecessary when it comes to choosing instruction. The problem is most people put more thought into buying a new TV. In my book I have chapters dedicated to choosing an instructor, a shop, and when and what training to look at after OW. The reason I put them in there was because of experiences like this.

Agencies want to make diving available to everyone. Not necessarily a bad thing but when they make it appear that anyone can do it and the weekend wonder classes are sufficient they are not giving the student a true picture of just what this sport is. It sickens me to hear of experiences like this and all I can say about the instructors who passed you is they should be ashamed of themselves.

They took your money and so did the agency with the on line learning and what you got out of it was in no way what you paid for. I'd be willing to bet that neither they nor the computer who was teaching you told you this sport kills those who don;t approach it with respect and proper training. It was all fun and sun and positive reinforcement. Even when it was not earned or deserved.

This statement
"The good about the OW lessons was they did provide us with the basic info to survive underwater."

is also a disgraceful testimony to greed. That you would be ok with the basic info to survive is an attitude that lets shops get away with crap instruction. Did they ever tell you what the OW class was supposed to result in? That you and an equally trained and experienced buddy are now capable, or should be, of planning, executing, and safely returning from a dive without an instructor or DM present? As long as the conditions are equal to or better than that in which you trained.

You should be. If not you are not an OW diver and still in need of further training. For anyone who feels like this please do yourself a favor and do not sign up for any more classes. Especially an AOW class. You have no business in one. You should get with the original instructor and ask for the instruction you paid for. If they refuse find another instructor who will not insist on you paying for a certification. Just hire them to work with you on the basics you should have as an OW diver. I outline what I think those are as well.

It is not fair to your buddies, dive ops, and those you may have to buddy up with to show up with a cert that does not reflect your training and ability. If a diver is uncomfortable in the water, cannot plan a dive without a DM or other pro, and cannot assist themselves or their buddy in an emergency they are better off staying out of the water.
 
I think that once the wifey gets her kicks under control, it would help a lot. Right now she's kicking like there's no tomorrow and either a) there's little propulsion despite all the efforts, or b) she pushes herself up towards the surface, or c) both.

So get her kicks under control first before doing anything else. It's probably better doing this while snorkeling/freediving. Of course you can strap on the scuba gear and practice descend/ascend and establishing neutral buoyancy without having to do any kicking.

Seems like the wifey has multiple problems, so attack them with baby steps. Address one issue at a time. I admire her gumption.
 
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