The deep air angle - split from Missouri Fatality

[MXGratefulDiver]

[*] Some people think the risks they take are acceptable but the risks others take are foolish.

“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?” (George Carlin)

George probably spent time reading threads on ScubaBoard. People spend a lot of effort here judging the actions of others based on what they would do. Fail to meet my standards, you're an idiot. Exceed my standards, you're a maniac.

Yanno, one of the things that attracts me to scuba diving is that I get to decide for myself how much risk to take. Someone else might choose to take more ... others might decide I take too much. I get to decide whether or not I want to dive with those people.

But it would be pretentious in the extreme for me to assume that I know what others should decide.

I gotta wonder how those with such strong opinions on this topic would feel if someone suddenly got to decide for them how they should dive.

None of us need a nanny ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[plot]

These same guys preaching trimix were probably calling it voodoo gas 20 years ago and claiming anyone who dives it is ‘stupid’ because their were so many unknowns about it. How many have died on CCR’s due to carelessness, bad planning, improper equipment maintenance/use, flat out gear malfunctions, or for completely unknown reasons? Does that mean anyone diving a CCR is ‘stupid’ because the option of lugging around tons of cylinders is readily available?

All these arguments about deep air being 'stupid' could also be applied to any overhead environment diving, but that’s not going to stop a lot of us from pursuing cave or wreck penetration diving. We know the risks, we accept the risks for the dives we choose to do. When we don't accept the risks, we don't do the dive.

It’s up to each individual diver to know their limitations, their experience level, and the risk associated with a particular dive. It’s up to each individual diver to look at these things and choose whether continue with the planned dive or not.

Blaming deaths simply on depth and gas still seems extremely short sited to me.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Holy cow!!! I just dived yesterday on 21% Nitrox to 77-ft depth. I'm glad to have come back in one piece at all.

I just did a dive to 120 fsw on nitrox yesterday. I'm such a stroke sometimes ...

... Bob (Grateful DIver)

 

[fnfalman]

At what point is a chilled diver as stupid as a deep air diver? Or, is this subjective like air diving?

If it's colder than 96-F then it's too cold to dive.

 

[Blackwood]

Yanno, one of the things that attracts me to scuba diving is that I get to decide for myself how much risk to take.

I find that odd.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I find that odd.

I find it odd that some of the folks who would force everyone to use helium below 100 feet are the same ones who are screaming about everyone being forced to buy health insurance.

I guess freedom of choice is only good if everyone else has to make the same choices they would ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Blackwood]

I find it odd that some of the folks who would force everyone to use helium below 100 feet are the same ones who are screaming about everyone being forced to buy health insurance.

I guess freedom of choice is only good if everyone else has to make the same choices they would ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I think you misunderstood me.

There are tons of other activities which I could substitute for scuba diving in your post (Yanno, one of the things that attracts me to xxxxx xxxxxx is that I get to decide for myself how much risk to take).

I found it odd that the personal freedom involved in diving attracted you to it. Seems like something most people wouldn't even recognize let alone appreciate until they've already started diving. I'm glad and grateful we don't have a SCUBA police regulating my activities, but I don't think I could honestly say the lack of a SCUBA police attracts me to diving. Cool stuff underwater attracts me to diving

I'm probably reading too much into your post.


BTW, who on here would force others to use helium below 100 feet? There's quite a difference between vocally objecting to deep air and attempting to force others to avoid it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm probably reading too much into your post.

I'm not sure what you're reading into it. Diving's a passion for me ... but it's hardly a religion. Some of these threads have serious dogmatic overtones. Coming from people with limited training, limited experience, and limited exposure to varying environments, it'd be comical if it weren't so bloody obnoxious.

BTW, who on here would force others to use helium below 100 feet? There's quite a difference between vocally objecting to deep air and attempting to force others to avoid it.

What, then, is the point of objecting ... particularly over and over, and using such emphatic choices of terminology?

I happen to (mostly) agree with the opponents of deep air. But the "in your face" approach is a huge turn-off if you're trying to convince someone of the validity of your argument. It's counterproductive.

My choice is personal ... like my religious beliefs ... and doesn't necessarily need to be shared with people who believe otherwise. I think a 100 foot hard deck is pretty arbitrary, and not applicable to everyone. I've known people who get stupid at less than 100 feet, and others who function just fine at 120. I think everyone needs to establish their own limits. If those limits happen to exceed mine, OK ... my option is to decide whether or not to dive with that person ... not to try to "convert" them to my way of thinking.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DaleC]

What attracts me about diving (aside from the stuff in the water) is that it is an activity where I can explore and experiment with different equipment and configurations. When I dive - I dive and when I'm not I'm tinkering on some garage project for diving.
It is why I am on the one hand, attracted to the critical thinking behind one particular system while on the other hand, repelled by it's call for standarization. I understand it but I could never live by it.

 

[Luku]

You can make all the rules you want the question is though, how will they be enforced?

Is it better to attempt to train those who want to learn / do risky things or let them go for it without any training.

Personally I think there will be fewer deaths with training, than without, which will be better for our industry as a whole. Though it is regretful and sad for anyone to die diving.

Divers traditionally have always pushed the limits some died in the process. Since this sport/hobbie/passion (what ever you want to call it) typically attracts the adventurous type of person, I think because of this we will continue to see people pushing the limits. IMO, education is the key - help them to understand the known dangers and encourage them to make safe dives.