Ditching the poodle jacket

[Tortuga68]

Sometimes less is more

 

[InTheDrink]

Whatever. Gear. Subject = gear. Any word yet? Is there anything that someone can do to help you on this side of the pond?

Keep in mind that I import about $3 million in inventory a year, and have some good friends in high places...

Well if you have any friends in RoyalMail or ParcelForce that can leverage anything at all then that might help. I don't seem to be getting anywhere and apparently I'm at the highest escalation level. I shudder to think what the lowest might be. I feel like I'm being fed a line by these guys although in fairness the office I'm dealing with now are calling near daily to tell me they have no news. I'm in danger of contracting the Stockholm syndrome. If they ever find the stuff, I'm not sure what I'll do without my daily well-being calls.

Distrust for the government is a core American value. Without it, we'd all still be British. It's not taxes or law or free elections that made America great - it's a system of checks and balances - a fancy way of saying, "We don't trust the government." The same goes for our right to bear arms - it's a Constitutional right because the men who built this country knew that when the government is armed and it's people are not, things don't usually go well for the people.

Patrick Henry: "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."

George Washington: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquence. It is force. And force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."

James Madison: "The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted."

Thomas Jefferson: "Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our servant, not our master!"

John Adams: "The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty."

We have many reasons - now and then - not to trust the government... And yeah, I'm proud of the fact that I don't. Apparently I'm in good company in the notion.

I've always been a left leaning kind of person. I think you call them liberals over there. I also like to think I'm a rationalist and pragmatist and don't get stuck in dogma either side. There's plenty of good reasons to distrust politicians, but it's politics that have allowed us to organise in a civilised way and create and keep the civil societies that we have today.

Re: your healthcare bill - this clearly isn't the place for this discussion - Ganghi said 'You can judge a society by how they treat their weakest members' Many Europeans regard the U.S. model as somewhat backward by this measure. And in terms of 'freeness' - we certainly don't have crazy notions like three strikes and you're out. Again, not something I would equate terribly quickly with a freedom loving nation but there you go. I'll jump down off my little soap box now.

Sorry if I've got you into trouble again and onto Dumpster's ignore list. I'm pleasantly astonished how my original incitement managed to go under the radar. Guess they reckon you've got previous. 3 strikes, etc.

Cheers,
J

 

[Deep South Divers]

Well if you have any friends in RoyalMail or ParcelForce that can leverage anything at all then that might help.

...So you're sure that the stuff (how many different shipments are you talking about? Just one? Two? More?) surely made it into RoyalMail or ParcelForce's hands?

Have you involved the original shipper? I mean, if you can get them involved, then maybe the two of you can attack from both ends.

If I had shipped something to one of my clients and they didn't get it, I'd be royally upset and finding a solution immediately.

I've always been a left leaning kind of person. I think you call them liberals over there. I also like to think I'm a rationalist and pragmatist and don't get stuck in dogma either side. There's plenty of good reasons to distrust politicians, but it's politics that have allowed us to organise in a civilised way and create and keep the civil societies that we have today.

I totally agree with you on that one. I always fashioned myself as an "independent," not really adhering to leftist or rightist ideals 100%.

Re: your healthcare bill - this clearly isn't the place for this discussion - Ganghi said 'You can judge a society by how they treat their weakest members' Many Europeans regard the U.S. model as somewhat backward by this measure.

Yeah, that's what I gather. It's apparent that European nations see our healthcare system as pretty backward...

Frankly, I agree with them. The whole thing is a complete disaster area.

On the other hand, I can't see that the system would be better is run by a government agency, so... I have no idea what we should do.

Sorry if I've got you into trouble again and onto Dumpster's ignore list. I'm pleasantly astonished how my original incitement managed to go under the radar. Guess they reckon you've got previous. 3 strikes, etc.

Hahahahahahhaa... Between governments, healthcare, lost shipments, ignore lists and cops who may or may not be real... People accusing me of accusing them and my propensity to be nothing but a target... I think I'm about to give up on the human race altogether. The pointless, brainless, mob mentality is just overwhelming. Thank God I get to dive every day and not deal with people for a while. I mean, in "real life," I get along with people pretty well - but believe me, it's a great thing to disappear every day for a few hours and be in a place where the rules are simple, you're responsible for your own well being, and nobody can say anything to you (insults, political agendas, things you know to be untrue). When you're underwater, health care reform is a distant concept and has no direct effect on you whatsoever. The "noise" is gone, and it doesn't matter whose opinion is right or wrong.

Thank God I dive for a living. I couldn't stand to live EVERY moment totally entangled in some sort of "he said, she said" soap opera/politics. The water is my sanctuary.

...Anyway, it's not your fault at all. I saw the humor in what you said - and I think that most people did. But just like so many times in a group of people, the lowest common denominator voices up and starts bellyaching about nothing... Throws a temper tantrum and spews a lot of crap just to have themselves heard. And if I defend myself against their accusations, then I'm the bad guy.

Whatever. This pseudo-cop mattered not to me before he threw his temper tantrum, and he matters less now. The only thing I can do is move on, go diving, and see if there's anything I can do to help the issue at hand - the loss of your stuff.

Don't feel responsible for "getting me into trouble again." You didn't do anything wrong. The problem is the big whiners who let the stupidest thing get their panties in a wad.

 

[InTheDrink]

So I've taken some of your advice and got the shipper to attack from their side. Apparently investigation can take up to 23 days.

In terms of U.S. politics. I find it very strange. There clearly is a deep suspicion against government that we don't have here. We typically feel that universal healthcare is a human right and that these absolute basics the government should provide. In Ireland, where I come from, water was always provided free (not sure if still the same now but I think it is) as it is a basic human right and if your government can't provide that then why on earth do they exist?

U.S. healthcare currently costs the same per capita as most European countries, yet our mortality rate is lower.

In terms of you getting attacked personally - it's not hard to see why. I've got used to you and find you very amusing and would actually find it fun to hang out or dive with you, despite your black and whiteness. But the real reason you wind people up is that you draw their integrity into question and I don't think that's helpful. Anyone accuses me of being a liar is going to get my back up big time. And Troutmaster would be completely within their rights getting shirty with some one drawing their integrity into question. I don't think the onus is on the poster to prove their veracity or integrity and I would think that the TOS, written or not, would include respecting and taking for face value some of the things people say as truth. You definitely don't work well on that part as the earlier part of the discussion showed.

Anyhow, it's not a lecture as funnily enough I'm really enjoying your company and well wishes in this difficult time of mine. Just trying to give you some pointers as to why you piss some people off. It's not ALL them. It's partly you too. Probably a big part, and I mean that in a nice way.

Trust a little more, you'll feel all the better for it

J

 

[burna]

..., water was always provided free (not sure if still the same now but I think it is) as it is a basic human right and if your government can't provide that then why on earth do they exist?

Not down here. Governments are pretty useless at most things, especially about making it rain! When it does rain, it's in the wrong spot!

Totally agree about the healthcare, we have Medicare and you have NHS and we enjoy reciprocal rights which is comforting to know when travelling OS.

P.S Bummer about the delivery! Nothing worse than hanging out for something to arrive. If you are like me, then you have the patience of a small child and everytime you here a car outside you jump up to see if it is the delivery guy.

What is they say? "Watch clock never tick." I think it should be "Watch parcel never show up!"

 

[InTheDrink]

Not down here. Governments are pretty useless at most things, especially about making it rain! When it does rain, it's in the wrong spot!

Totally agree about the healthcare, we have Medicare and you have NHS and we enjoy reciprocal rights which is comforting to know when travelling OS.

P.S Bummer about the delivery! Nothing worse than hanging out for something to arrive. If you are like me, then you have the patience of a small child and everytime you here a car outside you jump up to see if it is the delivery guy.

What is they say? "Watch clock never tick." I think it should be "Watch parcel never show up!"

There's probably some law out there that states 'the chances of your delivery arriving safe, sound and on-time is inversely proportional to how much you want it'.

The sender is being very helpful so I'm sure one way or the other I'll get my gear, but it may require being compensated by PayPal etc. before I can re-order. I'll be insisting on UPS this time though.

This is of course assuming the kit is lost or stolen. I'm pretty sure it is. The mail service in the UK is appalling. I've had personal GF photos etc. taken from mail here in the past so nothing would surprise me, although the condescending tone of Parcelforce's customer service department really has surprised me. I guess call-centre work is all these butt munches can get.

J

 

[Deep South Divers]

So I've taken some of your advice and got the shipper to attack from their side. Apparently investigation can take up to 23 days.

Yikes! Well, I certainly do hope that it takes less than that. You had a great point about PayPal - they're usually a pretty good intermediary, in my humble experience. Great that you used them!

Is the shipper giving you less grief? Personally, I'd contact PayPal now and let them know that you haven't received your shipment. If they offer to refund your money, do it and purchase the items again from another vendor... With insurance and all, to ensure the stuff's delivery.

What that'll do is force a refund from the person/shop that you purchased from... And suddenly, the problem becomes THEIRS, not yours. Believe me, they'll be a lot more motivated to solve the problem if the money came out of their pocket.

...Now, if you've already talked with the shipper and they're working with you amicably, you may want to hold off on forcing the refund... Or the refund may not be available to you at all... But keep in mind that there is probably a time limit on the services, so if there's not a resolve by a given time, you may have to do what you have to do to protect yourself.

...That is, if that's what's available to you at all.

I know you want to trust people, and yeah, they may be good people - but don't fail to protect yourself just 'cause you like someone... If they are really good people, they'll solve the issue for you and not force you into a position of having to make a choice on whether or not to protect yourself.

In terms of U.S. politics. I find it very strange. There clearly is a deep suspicion against government that we don't have here.

Interesting. I've never lived in a society where deep suspicion of the government wasn't prevalent.

My father was a military pilot - my mother was a teacher. I worked for big government for years, and later for big corporations that were so large as to be government-like on their own. For these reasons especially, I know that a large, organized group of people with power is something to be weary of. I can not imagine turning my back to such an entity, and it is shocking to me that others do... Especially in light of some of the past issues with government like communism, socialism, elitism, nobility, poor leadership, and financial collapse of some government entities. Where were the people when these entities became tyrannical? I would think that living on "that side of the pond," you would have a very close viewpoint as to why not to trust governments.

We typically feel that universal healthcare is a human right and that these absolute basics the government should provide. In Ireland, where I come from, water was always provided free (not sure if still the same now but I think it is) as it is a basic human right and if your government can't provide that then why on earth do they exist?

That's a great question!

They exist because some people crave power - so they do it with political efforts. Despite what they say, people do not become politicians or police officers or heads of State or whatever because they want to serve people... They do it because they want the status, the ability to walk around with a gun, to fly military jets, or to be "in charge" of a group of students. They want to be considered "public servants," and they enjoy the job... That's all. It's not inherently evil in and of itself, but "to serve others" is usually far down on the list of reasons why someone does something as a career.

Think about this: Our government doesn't give us free healthcare - all of those who have healtcare pay for it via "insurance"... Those that don't pay for health care "insurance" pay for it at the time that services are rendered. My water bill comes in every month, and if that bill's not paid, then they shut my water off to my house - plain and simple. The government provides neither of these services to me, just like they don't provide electricity, entertainment, communication, or any other utility service. I pay for these things myself. So ask yourself - if what is considered the largest government in the world is not providing these things to it's people, what do they exist for?

After pondering that for a moment, perhaps you, too, will understand why we feel it's necessary to watch our government closely. Add to that past examples, and it's not surprising to see that people are distrusting.

Don't even get me started on the financials of the situation... If I take an example of earning a wage to pay for a piece of electronic equipment manufactured in Tiawan, it would be astounding to see how much money the government makes on the transaction, once you include income tax, property tax, sales tax, import tax, customs inspection, road use tax, fuel tax, property taxes, income taxes for all of those freighters, shippers, drivers, and more... When you really break it down, it's amazing that there's anything left at all to actually purchase the good or service.

You wanna know why there's a recession going on? Well... Because we've allowed ourselves to pay into a system where complacency is the norm, no actual services are rendered, and by far, the majority of the wage we earn never even goes into our pockets.

In 2010, slavery has found a new method - we no longer have the simplicity of masters and whips and restricted rights... Today, they simply tax us to the point where we're all working directly for the government - with no benefit to ourselves. Wanna know how our government can afford the war in the Middle East? It's because the same government has raped it's people... But nobody seems to have an issue with it, 'cause paying 11% road tax when we purchase a gallon of gasoline doesn't seem too bad. The problem is that we're paying 11%, plus sales tax of 7%, plus 18% Federal gasoline tax, plus 22% local taxes (and in some cases taxed AFTER another tax has been applied - in other words, taxed on the taxes)... After having 40% of our income taken away previously... To fuel a vehicle that we pay hundreds of dollars a year for in property taxes (even though we've already paid for the vehicle - and all of it's interest on the loan) while maintaining an insurance policy that is outlandishly expensive because the government has skewed the supply/demand curve by making it a law that requires it.

Clearly, our people are overtaxed - once you figure out that 85% to 90% of our income is gone into taxes, it shouldn't be incredible to anyone to see that they have to borrow every month in order to live - and pay the water bill and for healthcare. You wanna know why we're in a recession? It's 'cause someone else is taking the majority of the money each of us earn, leaving us with little to pay off our debts that we shouldn't have had to take on in the first place.

...And so we live like this (or some of us do), and the cycle continues. Some people understand it, some don't... But it happens nonetheless.

In terms of you getting attacked personally - it's not hard to see why. I've got used to you and find you very amusing and would actually find it fun to hang out or dive with you, despite your black and whiteness.

Thanks, bud! And I promise to not rant about the government.

Amusing is good - much of what I said before was with a humorous, surly slant... So "amusing" is much of what I was going for. If that humor doesn't come across, then "tough." (Just kidding.)

Different people see humor in different ways. Apparently my sense of humor comes across much differently online than it does in person.

But the real reason you wind people up is that you draw their integrity into question and I don't think that's helpful. Anyone accuses me of being a liar is going to get my back up big time.

...And mine, too. Good thing I've never called anyone a liar, hunh?

Actually, if you care to look all the way back, you'll see that the only person called a "liar" was me.

...So it's pretty funny to see people accusing me of calling others "liars." I have never said that - and in fact, have been called it myself. So what?

I don't think the onus is on the poster to prove their veracity or integrity and I would think that the TOS, written or not, would include respecting and taking for face value some of the things people say as truth.

Hahahahahhaaaa!!!! Actually, the TOS is here: ScubaBoard - Frequently Asked Questions: Terms of Service Items It specifically talks about personal attacks and insults of a personal nature... But it doesn't say anything about "accepting what everyone says is the truth." In fact, in most online circles (ScubaBoard or not), the general thought process is not to believe everything you read on the internet... So why would ScubaBoard be any different? I'm stunned that you would suggest to me that things said here are generally true. C'mon, man... It's the internet.

You definitely don't work well on that part as the earlier part of the discussion showed.

I work GREAT on that part... Showing trust when something that someone says is the truth. I have gotten very good at being able to discern the difference between truth and untruth, and have gotten very good at adhering to TOS and not making personal attacks like, "You're a liar." If your opinion is different than mine on a given topic, then I suggest that you reconsider your own... I have been on this board alone (and many others before and since) for about a decade. Do not believe everything you hear here... In fact, don't believe most of it, unless the person is forthright enough to prove their point. Those that are telling the truth are never insulted to offer proof to a claim - those that are are probably full of crap.

You'll learn this after doing it a few years. You'll also learn that nonstandard design in scuba gear is usually not a good thing. You'll learn that the "latest and greatest" usually isn't. Very rarely does it really happen that way.

Anyhow, it's not a lecture as funnily enough I'm really enjoying your company and well wishes in this difficult time of mine. Just trying to give you some pointers as to why you piss some people off. It's not ALL them. It's partly you too. Probably a big part, and I mean that in a nice way.

...And it's taken in a nice way, mate. If you were here, I'd take ya out for a beer... Uh... "Pint."

When someone is full of crap and spews crap on me and gets crap all over me, and I say, "Hey, what you're saying isn't true," (so as to avoid the personal insult and accusation of "liar"), why should I be concerned whether or not it "pisses them off" like you say? Truth-tellers don't get pissed off when they are asked to prove their point - they are happy to front proof so that they can be taken seriously. Only those without proof get "pissed off" - because they've been exposed as someone not telling the truth (and then accuse others of calling them "liars"). In retrospect, what do you think really happened in this thread?

Trust a little more, you'll feel all the better for it

J

I DO trust... Just as soon as someone provides a reason to trust them. I'm not a horrible person for asking for a reason to trust... Those that are telling the truth are happy to give reason.

 

[rivers]

we have Medicare and you have NHS "

But the big difference between the NHS and Medicare is that the NHS covers everybody. Medicare does not

 

[Sas]

But the big difference between the NHS and Medicare is that the NHS covers everybody. Medicare does not

Who does it not cover then? I thought only Norfolk Island. But Norfolk Island is self-governing so hmmm. To be honest though, I think the population of 2000 should be covered so people don't have to move to the mainland when they need health care.

 

[rivers]

Who does it not cover then? I thought only Norfolk Island. But Norfolk Island is self-governing so hmmm. To be honest though, I think the population of 2000 should be covered so people don't have to move to the mainland when they need health care.

my bad, i was talking medicare in the us, not australia