Where to post trips? (Split from Diving East Side of Island)

[DiverG]

I actually try to give as much as I can to the volunteers. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of profit to go round, and even I live just above the poverty line (other than a LOT of diving). This is a community FIRST. I don't let the tail (advertisers) wag the dog. I don't know if Christi has ever advertised with us and I am sure that Aldora has not. The only dive op from Coz to do that is Apple, and while I GREATLY appreciate her doing so, she does not get any special treatment here.

That being said, as soon as someone alluded to impropriety on my part, I stopped moderating this thread or giving any input on how it should be moderated. The Board operates as ethically as possible. Done deal.

Pete do you have someone else handle advertising on the site? Christie's Blue XT Sea has an ad running on the left side of Cozumel forum. Nothing wrong with that, but it is advertising.

 

[firstdive2005]

I really have no dog in this fight and think I can see both side's POV's.

I can see situations where someone is describing a trip they will be taking and describing what it includes and then topping it off with the price they paid. In this situation, it is all done out of excitement or just to share. There is no OFFER of anything....where would that belong? IMO that would not be a post for Marketplace (am I correct?).

When someone appears to be recruiting people to fill spaces, I see it as a Market place post. This, IMO, is what the OP did (according to the post quoted by Pete later. I read the post and came away thinking that the poster was trying to fill spaces. Perhpas it is just a poor choice of words used to describe what they wanted to describe.

Thanks for taking the time to write this Scubasteve and to the others.
In one of my posts to Pete I did say I think my wording is off. I needed to understand how to do it when my thread seemed like so many to me and still does.
The way you said 'trying to fill spaces' somehow clicked, I was not trying to sell it to anyone as I was trying to tell people about the opportunity. I think that means the same thing, am I right? I totally get your first paragragh, how simple. You must be a teacher. That's the spirit I had but worded wrong. I need to figure that out.
I would like to pull example posts to ask if they are legal posts or not but that may upset some. I read so many posts last night and today to see what the difference to mine and theirs' where. For real I dont see much difference. But what I see in their posts is enthusiasm. I dont see anyone trying to fill seats. But then again why does anyone post the dive ops name they use if you dont want the dive op used. I thought I understood the ToS here, I am so far in left field it's sick. I think i GET IT. Next time I go diving and that is shortly, I just say, ' I went diving' and just figure everyone knows what I'm talking about.
I'm out over posting for a while anywhere. This was too much for a guy that just wants to share diving experiences. I'll find another way.
Thanks to all for giving your opinions and values, I appreciate that. Even the ones that well are just rude, I learn from them too.
And Pete sorry I took so much from your life in trying to get this sorted out. Small potatoes. I know how it feels I have to babysit 20 men that work for me. Wont bother your day over this again.

 

[Wookie]

Pete do you have someone else handle advertising on the site? Christie's Blue XT Sea has an ad running on the left side of Cozumel forum. Nothing wrong with that, but it is advertising.

Short answer is that Pete does not deal with the advertising directly, he has a staff member who does all that. I do not know if the staff member is paid, but ifhe isn't, he sure deals with a lot of kaaka for a volunteer. The staff member is not a moderator.

 

[deepstops]

Its funny I have been reading scubaboard for close to 2 years now, specifically the Coz forum, and I have seen Christi go out of her way not to "pimp" her own op, David at Aldora does the same. I could be all wet but I can usually see through BS and her responses to posts are not BS. When she answers a question that results with her op being a fit she almost always includes Aldora, Living Underwater and a few others as viable options as well, and if you want to split hairs, she usually doesn't even put her op first.
Sorry your conspiracy theory doesn't pass the smell test.

You and Christi's fan club are entitled to your opinion but you can't deny she jumped into this thread about Dive With Martin to pimp her charter.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/4898852-post21.html

I can show you at least half a dozen more examples of similar behavior but chances are good you're not even going agree she should have stayed out of the thread I've linked above. We'll just have to agree to disagree......

 

[Prop Joe]

First of all, we can't lock out Thanks from a given post - it's a forum-wide only option. Not that anyone ever would.

Second of all, after 24 hours all users are "locked out" from further editing their posts. This was done several years ago to prevent members from posting something inflammatory as a troll and then later editing and removing their remarks and claiming innocence. Which used to happen a lot.

Thanks for the explination. All things I didn't realize/know.
One day the post was there in the normal forum...
Seemed people appreciated the pics and info...
Peace!

 

[BTravlin]

You and Christi's fan club are entitled to your opinion but you can't deny she jumped into this thread about Dive With Martin to pimp her charter.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/4898852-post21.html

I can show you at least half a dozen more examples of similar behavior but chances are good you're not even going agree she should have stayed out of the thread I've linked above. We'll just have to agree to disagree......

Christi has a fan club? Where can I sign up?

 

[billindenver]

Bill,

I find your post personally offensive on so many levels, that it's hard to begin. It's simply cowardly to try to prove your point by descending into these personal attacks with absolutely NO supporting evidence. All it really does is show a lack of character on your part. I will stop here before I tell you what I really think about such lame attacks.

For reasonable people: there is no favoritism shown to any user or resort, though a few people here feel that they are above the rules. There is no collusion by our volunteers to steer business one way or another. There IS an apparent amount of jealousy and billigerance towards someone who has used this forum successfully.

A coward. Ok. That's real impressive and noble of you NetDoc. Without even so much as discussing it with me or asking for examples you are going to assume that I have no evidence to submit, and call me a coward in the meantime. Ok. I'll post some examples. You will obviously not look into them and that's fine. But, I'm a retired Marine. I've defended your right to act like this, been in harms way and gave my pound of flesh for my country so that you have the right to call me a coward...from behind the protection of your computer screen. Rather than respond with the same lack of integrity, I'll post the examples you asked for.

Trouble Contacting Blue XT Sea

That thread had the title modified by a mod because he felt it was unfair to Blue XT Sea. Read the thread. The poster wasn't being unfair to BXTS, she was stating the problem she had with them. Why would a mod modify a title to reflect better on a company? There was nothing rude about the title. There was nothing against the TOS in it. Why would a mod get involved? Why did the Mod lock that thread after Christi requested it? So that the discussion would end? Why? The next question you have to ask, is why didn't the mod then modify or lock this one:

Dive With Martin Hmmm.

That post is far more damaging and attack oriented than the one about Christi's blowing off a client and then attacking them in a scathing email. DWM was being hammered in that thread, but did a Mod get involved? Nope. Did it get locked? Nope. And it should not have been...its a discussion between divers about a dive op. Each sharing their views, on a webboard. The problem is, when the same discussion happens with BXTS as the subject the thread title is censored, the thread is locked or deleted altogether. Explain that to me Doc.

Other examples are harder to come by because the threads have been deleted. You run this board, so you have more access than I do behind the front page. Can you recover deleted posts? The only proof that a member like me can offer that threads are being deleted that cast a negative light on the advertiser (that you assert isn't advertising here) is if you click on my Thanks to the left. The number of Thanks counted to the left doesn't equal the number you can read in my profile. It's tedious, but if you click on each and count the multiples there are half a dozen missing. Why...because those threads are gone. They were not my threads. I didn't start them, but when Christi and her minions descend upon someone who voiced a complaint about her service...I would post that I had the same problem and those people would throw me a thanks. Then...the thread is deleted. Not locked. Not moved. Deleted. Why?

Any discussion of BXTS that is not flowery and pretty very quickly ends up censored, moved, locked or gone. I run a business and understand that people working for me often do things that I would not approve of. Sometimes I hear about those things and am forced by conscience to look into them, to see if anything has been done by my company that is improper. A lessor leader simply jumps to his people's defense without so much as a look to see if they actually may have done something wrong. A lessor man attacks those who point out an irregularity, calls them names from behind the protection of a keyboard rather than look into the accusation.

Do you attest that you know about the friendships of every one of your mods? Do you believe that a mod couldn't do what I'm saying without your knowledge? If you believe that every one of the mods you've ever had is as pure as the driven snow, then so be it. I don't believe it.

 

[ScubaSteve]

But, I'm a retired, wounded Marine. I've defended your right to act like this, been in harms way and suffered for it

I respect and appreciate what every member of my country's army, navy etc.. do for my country AND ME and also that of the US. However this has absolutely ZERO to do with the discussion and is an obvious plea to get people on your side.

 

[Cave Diver]

A coward. Ok. That's real impressive and noble of you NetDoc. Without even so much as discussing it with me or asking for examples you are going to assume that I have no evidence to submit, and call me a coward in the meantime. Ok. I'll post some examples. You will obviously not look into them and that's fine. But, I'm a retired, wounded Marine. I've defended your right to act like this, been in harms way and suffered for it so that you have the right to call me a coward...from behind the protection of your computer screen. Rather than respond with the same lack of integrity, I'll post the examples you asked for.

Trouble Contacting Blue XT Sea

That thread had the title modified by a mod because he felt it was unfair to Blue XT Sea. Read the thread. The poster wasn't being unfair to BXTS, she was stating the problem she had with them. Why would a mod modify a title to reflect better on a company? There was nothing rude about the title. There was nothing against the TOS in it. Why would a mod get involved?

Bill,

You addressed this to Pete, but I'm going to add my viewpoint and attempt to answer your questions. First off, I reviewed the thread you posted the link to. That thread is over a year old. I was not a Mod at the time it happened and I have no affiliations with any of the dive ops so I believe my opinion is about as unbiased as you can get.

The title was changed by a staff member, but they were not a Mod. They are no longer a staff member and I cannot speak for their reasoning in changing the title. Based on the OP's problem, my guess is that it was done to facilitate someone helping them figure out how to get in contact with BlueXTSea, as that is the problem they stated they were having. The OP also stated they received a notification from the staff member who made the change and they were ok with it being done. If they objected, I'm reasonably certain it would have been reversed.

Why did the Mod lock that thread after Christi requested it? So that the discussion would end? Why?

The thread was not locked based on Christ's request. The OP stated they couldnt get in touch with BlueXTSea, who responded. The OP stated that the problem was resolved: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3990494-post19.html
and expressed displeasure at the reaction of other posters twisting her post: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3991280-post26.html

After that, the thread side tracked from the original topic and was shut down because the question had been addressed. It was suggested that anyone who wished to continue the debate on which op was better to dive with should start a new thread. This is not an uncommon practice.

The next question you have to ask, is why didn't the mod then modify or lock this one:

Dive With Martin Hmmm.

That post is far more damaging and attack oriented than the one about Christi's blowing off a client and then attacking them in a scathing email. DWM was being hammered in that thread, but did a Mod get involved? Nope. Did it get locked? Nope. And it should not have been...its a discussion between divers about a dive op. Each sharing their views, on a webboard. The problem is, when the same discussion happens with BXTS as the subject the thread title is censored, the thread is locked or deleted altogether. Explain that to me Doc.

I haven't read that thread yet, so I will refrain from commenting on the content. I will say that Mods generally only get involved in threads when users report issues with them and when the issues warrant a response. We don't just randomly go around moderating threads at whim. Once again my guess without reading the thread (yet) is that for some reason people get more passionate about BlueXTSea (good or bad) leading to more moderation. Disagreement is fine, but some users can't seem to do so without insults or name calling. At some point if we can't keep putting out the fires, it's time to remove the fuel.

Other examples are harder to come by because the threads have been deleted. You run this board, so you have more access than I do behind the front page. Can you recover deleted posts? The only proof that a member like me can offer that threads are being deleted that cast a negative light on the advertiser (that you assert isn't advertising here) is if you click on my Thanks to the left. The number of Thanks counted to the left doesn't equal the number you can read in my profile. It's tedious, but if you click on each and count the multiples there are half a dozen missing. Why...because those threads are gone. They were not my threads. I didn't start them, but when Christi and her minions descend upon someone who voiced a complaint about her service...I would post that I had the same problem and those people would throw me a thanks. Then...the thread is deleted. Not locked. Not moved. Deleted. Why?

I did research this before responding. You have missing thanks because a thread was deleted. That thread had numerous insults, name calling and accusations in it despite repeated Mod warnings from several different Mods about it. As I said previously, if we can't put out the fires, it's time to remove the fuel.

Any discussion of BXTS that is not flowery and pretty very quickly ends up censored, moved, locked or gone.

When people can't play nice, they lose the privilege to play. Again, I'm not familiar with BXTS, so I can't comment on what seems to stir people up about them so much. But when a thread gets off track and reported it will be addressed, no matter who it is about.

I run a business and understand that people working for me often do things that I would not approve of. Sometimes I hear about those things and am forced by conscience to look into them, to see if anything has been done by my company that is improper. A lessor leader simply jumps to his people's defense without so much as a look to see if they actually may have done something wrong. A lessor man attacks those who point out an irregularity, calls them names from behind the protection of a keyboard rather than look into the accusation.

Do you attest that you know about the friendships of every one of your mods? Do you believe that a mod couldn't do what I'm saying without your knowledge? If you believe that every one of the mods you've ever had is as pure as the driven snow, then so be it. I don't believe it.

The post you referenced first was over a year ago. Some of the staff involved in those decisions are no longer staff. All of the staff are human and make mistakes. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but no, I'm not as pure as the driven snow and I also don't let friendships affect my duties as a Mod. I have moderated SEVERAL of my friends on the board when the situation called for it. I have also recused myself from several instances when I didn't think that I could do so fairly. I feel pretty confident in saying that most of the active Mods currently on staff are the same way. Many of the moderating decisions that I have seen during my tenure are discussed first, not just knee jerk reactions except in the case of blatant violations.

I hope this answers some of your concerns and I for one, appreciate your service that allows us the freedom to have such discussions.

 

[Wookie]

Trouble Contacting Blue XT Sea

That thread had the title modified by a mod because he felt it was unfair to Blue XT Sea. Read the thread. The poster wasn't being unfair to BXTS, she was stating the problem she had with them. Why would a mod modify a title to reflect better on a company? There was nothing rude about the title. There was nothing against the TOS in it. Why would a mod get involved? Why did the Mod lock that thread after Christi requested it? So that the discussion would end? Why? The next question you have to ask, is why didn't the mod then modify or lock this one:

Actually if you look at post 25 of the referenced thread, the title change was suggested by a member and agreed to by the OP before it was changed.

And the thread was requested to be closed by Christi in post 39, but not closed for 10 hours, a lifetime on these boards. As I read the ToS, a thread may be closed at the request of the OP. I'm going to guess that there was a PM that you and I weren't privy to that asked her if the thread could be closed.

So as I read it, the OP had a problem, Christi answered the problem, and the thread was closed at the request of the OP and Chrsti.

In the Dive with Martin thread you referenced, The OP had a problem, many folks came on the thread to tell about their problems, many came on to defend DWM, DWM was nowhere to be found, the OP didn't ask to close the thread, DWM didn't ask to close the thread, in fact, I didn't see anyone ask to close the thread. It comes as no surprise to me that the thread is still open.

I thank you for your service. I'm sorry you were hurt in the line of duty because dealing with the VA is a real pain. How do I know this? You ain't the only disabled vet on the boards, bub. What does being a disabled vet have to do with diving in Cozumel, anyway?