Where to post trips? (Split from Diving East Side of Island)

[diversteve]

Because your post takes business away from a dive op that has for some time had this board and some of of its mods bought and paid for. Post something that will take business away from BXTS and your thread will either be locked, deleted completely or moved to oblivion.

The only thing not laughable about your contention is that you obviously believe it. Most of the mods I know haven't ever even been to Cozumel much less have any desire to show favoritism to one dive op over another there. (I'd post all the mods but there's probably some that have been to Coz - none that I'm aware of that show favoritism over it though)

Ummm....we're all NON-paid volunteers. So exactly how have we been bought and paid for?

Oh wait..I have about 20 Scubaboard stickers that Pete gave me once - to give away to others. And a $5.00 name badge so people know me at dive shows.

Which by the way I pay to travel to and stay at entirely on my own. Except we do get free admittance once there - as long as we work the booth for 4 hrs. In case you haven't noticed, Phoenix isn't exactly the dive mecca of the world so that means airfare/hotel/car rental etc. are on my dime.

So the sum of my compensation from Scubaboard runs in the Negative by hundreds (thousands?) of dollars. So please explain how I've been bought and paid for.

 

[firstdive2005]

The only thing not laughable about your contention is that you obviously believe it. Most of the mods I know haven't ever even been to Cozumel much less have any desire to show favoritism to one dive op over another there. (I'd post all the mods but there's probably some that have been to Coz - none that I'm aware of that show favoritism over it though)

Ummm....we're all NON-paid volunteers. So exactly how have we been bought and paid for?

Oh wait..I have about 20 Scubaboard stickers that Pete gave me once - to give away to others. And a $5.00 name badge so people know me at dive shows.

Which by the way I pay to travel to and stay at entirely on my own. Except we do get free admittance once there - as long as we work the booth for 4 hrs. In case you haven't noticed, Phoenix isn't exactly the dive mecca of the world so that means airfare/hotel/car rental etc. are on my dime.

So the sum of my compensation from Scubaboard runs in the Negative by hundreds (thousands?) of dollars. So please explain how I've been bought and paid for.

Wow total pure integrity, I'm impressed. Dont read that as a slight, if you get zero graft for your efforts, thats impressive. I would not ask that of anybody. I would expect some frills somewhere. Some kind of help to carry the message of the board to shows would not be undue. Does he at least give you a t-shirt also?

 

[deepstops]

Well, I think it's wrong that BXTC continually comes into threads about other ops (that weren't started by those ops) to share her viewpoint that the service she provides is better, the dives are longer, the dives are better, etc. There was another thread about a month ago wher someone asked about Diving With Martin and there were many positive posts about DWM. Then someone said they felt DWM cut dives short to keep their schedule so apparently that opened the door for BXTC to come and tout "we do 90 minute dives and hour plus surface intervals" and we stay on schedule She later admitted the afternnon trip sometimes doesn't leave until 230pm when I pointed those logistics were impossible. I reported the post because I didn't think she should be advertising herself when the OP asked about someone else but her posts were not removed. I wouldn't call it protectionism but she does seem to operate with some level of impunity here.

In the the thread being discussed now, she stated folks would be better served "to curl up in bed with a good book" rather than dive the east side of the island. Those divers didn't go Coz to read books, they went to dive!

I do NOT read the original post as an offer, I read it as someone pointing out Aldora has an alternative when the Norte blows in. I would NOT have known that without him posting it.

 

[diversteve]

Does he at least give you a t-shirt also?

Oh yeah there's that. When you show up at the show. Actually anyone who volunteers to work the booth gets one.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Not that anyone ever would.

I really have no dog in this fight and think I can see both side's POV's.

I can see situations where someone is describing a trip they will be taking and describing what it includes and then topping it off with the price they paid. In this situation, it is all done out of excitement or just to share. There is no OFFER of anything....where would that belong? IMO that would not be a post for Marketplace (am I correct?).

When someone appears to be recruiting people to fill spaces, I see it as a Market place post. This, IMO, is what the OP did (according to the post quoted by Pete later. I read the post and came away thinking that the poster was trying to fill spaces. Perhpas it is just a poor choice of words used to describe what they wanted to describe.

 

[BTravlin]

<SNIP>In the the thread being discussed now, she stated folks would be better served "to curl up in bed with a good book" rather than dive the east side of the island. Those divers didn't go Coz to read books, they went to dive!<SNIP>

You mean this quote here:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/trips-local-marketplace-cozumel/318571-cant-go-wrong-2.html, Post # 15

"Hey Jen - it's true! Aldora has two boats over there and they sent out one boat this morning. It is for qualified divers only, so not for newbie divers - of course you are MORE than qualified! I actually had a diver set up this morning to go out with them, but even in this cold rainy weather - east side diving is not a fun option! The only thing worth doing today is staying in with a good book or a movie and snuggled up in bed! Wish that's where I was!"


You make it sound as if she was trying to talk people out of diving with Aldora when it seems to me she was just verifying the info posted. She also mentioned she had a diver set to go out with them that day. Then she expressed her opinion that it was so nasty out that staying home in bed might be a good option. Don't really see where that post should have been a problem for anyone.

 

[Wookie]

snip..Well, I think it's wrong that BXTC continually comes into threads about other ops (that weren't started by those ops) to share her viewpoint that the service she provides is better, the dives are longer, the dives are better, etc...snip

I agree with you. I sometimes have to bite my tongue when there is a post about another op in the keys, because I wouldn't like it if someone came into my post touting their services.

This thing is so close along with the line of the ToS that I can see how you would see that it doesn't cross over. And by the way, I think the OP's heart was in the right place with his post. I certainly don't think he was trying to sneak one by, and with a little different wording I don't think anyone would have complained.

As we all know, this is a heavily moderated board, with strict adherence to the ToS. If anyone wants to fight, the scuba.yahoo group is a free for all. I think moderation on a recreational board is a good thing. On a tech board, not so much....

 

[mstevens]

My take:

I think NetDoc has been more than clear on the board's policies and how they apply in this particular instance. He's repeated that, then re-repeated it.

It seems clear that firstdive2005 did not think that he was advertising for a dive op, but the post actually ended up being an announcement of a commercial dive trip. Nothing wrong with that. It just belongs in a different section from where it was posted.

I've never met Christi or dived with her company. She has personally helped me with finding a Cozumel dive op few years ago. I've seen her come to the defense of numerous other dive ops. At times she uses examples from her own operations in explaining things, but to me that's never seemed like advertising so much as sharing her own experience. She appears to go out of her way to avoid criticizing other ops.

In this particular case, Christi has specifically said that she tries to get her own divers set up with Aldora to dive the east side if the port is closed and the divers qualified. I've never seen her be less than complimentary about Aldora and their operation. She seemed to be saying that the weather recently was miserable enough that, in her personal opinion, the best thing to do was curl up at home with a book. That's a far different thing from trying to dissuade divers from using any particular op or even from diving the east side of the island.

I've also never met or dived with Dave Dillehay. He also appears very much to promote Cozumel diving much more than his particular operation and is generous with helpful advice that is not especially self-serving. He also is able to speak from his considerable experience without necessarily promoting his own business.

I see no evidence of a Cozumel board dive op mafia. I see no evidence of heavy-handed moderation or excessive squelching of free expression and exchange.

Paranoid interpretations should be a last resort, not an initial reaction.

 

[Zman96]

Well, I think it's wrong that BXTC continually comes into threads about other ops (that weren't started by those ops) to share her viewpoint that the service she provides is better, the dives are longer, the dives are better, etc. There was another thread about a month ago wher someone asked about Diving With Martin and there were many positive posts about DWM. Then someone said they felt DWM cut dives short to keep their schedule so apparently that opened the door for BXTC to come and tout "we do 90 minute dives and hour plus surface intervals" and we stay on schedule She later admitted the afternnon trip sometimes doesn't leave until 230pm when I pointed those logistics were impossible. I reported the post because I didn't think she should be advertising herself when the OP asked about someone else but her posts were not removed. I wouldn't call it protectionism but she does seem to operate with some level of impunity here.

In the the thread being discussed now, she stated folks would be better served "to curl up in bed with a good book" rather than dive the east side of the island. Those divers didn't go Coz to read books, they went to dive!

I do NOT read the original post as an offer, I read it as someone pointing out Aldora has an alternative when the Norte blows in. I would NOT have known that without him posting it.

Its funny I have been reading scubaboard for close to 2 years now, specifically the Coz forum, and I have seen Christi go out of her way not to "pimp" her own op, David at Aldora does the same. I could be all wet but I can usually see through BS and her responses to posts are not BS. When she answers a question that results with her op being a fit she almost always includes Aldora, Living Underwater and a few others as viable options as well, and if you want to split hairs, she usually doesn't even put her op first.
Sorry your conspiracy theory doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[The Chairman]

I actually try to give as much as I can to the volunteers. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of profit to go round, and even I live just above the poverty line (other than a LOT of diving). This is a community FIRST. I don't let the tail (advertisers) wag the dog. I don't know if Christi has ever advertised with us and I am sure that Aldora has not. The only dive op from Coz to do that is Apple, and while I GREATLY appreciate her doing so, she does not get any special treatment here.

That being said, as soon as someone alluded to impropriety on my part, I stopped moderating this thread or giving any input on how it should be moderated. The Board operates as ethically as possible. Done deal.

Wow total pure integrity, I'm impressed. Dont read that as a slight, if you get zero graft for your efforts, thats impressive. I would not ask that of anybody. I would expect some frills somewhere. Some kind of help to carry the message of the board to shows would not be undue. Does he at least give you a t-shirt also?