BC question

[GrumpyOldGuy]

If I had that kind of thought process I wouldn't dive, it's kind of like saying I wouldn't be able to buddy breathe because I would probably hold my breath or if I had to make an emergency ascent I would hold my breath.

The habit is going to be praticed with buddies in all types of conditions and it will be praticed with whatever gear I aquire. If I feel it is not adequate or do not feel it can be safely perfomed in a controlled situation by me I will try a different setup.

It's not natural to hold my breath anymore because my brain understands it can cause death, but mistakes can be made and it can happen in any type of situation even with the most experienced divers and that is a risk I'm willing to take with every dive.


I asked the instructor and he said you can just use the dump valve on it and still breathe through it as he demostrated.

Your analogy falls flat. With a CESA, by definition you have a no other option. When we were taught buddy breathing in the 70's we had no choice either. Now days, you have a choice of the safer option (octo) or a slightly less safe option (integrated). I suppose you have the option of buddy breathing also in the name of streamlining.

As for dumping with a shoulder dump, it is true, ONLY IF your BC or wing has shoulder dumps. This feature is common, but far from universal.

In the end of course, it is your choice the the risk involved are minimized if you practice using it often, including ascending. My response was to the question by Ron of "one good reason other the DIR" to avoid integrated units. I think I have given a valid reason although you have chosen to discount it. Ron is not shy, he can pound on me now or anytime we run into each other at the Blue Hole.

I wish you the very best and safest diving possible. I congratulate on thinking about the issues even if we do not agree.

 

[Jerzi]

Your analogy falls flat. With a CESA, by definition you have a no other option. When we were taught buddy breathing in the 70's we had no choice either. Now days, you have a choice of the safer option (octo) or a slightly less safe option (integrated). I suppose you have the option of buddy breathing also in the name of streamlining.

As for dumping with a shoulder dump, it is true, ONLY IF your BC or wing has shoulder dumps. This feature is common, but far from universal.

In the end of course, it is your choice the the risk involved are minimized if you practice using it often, including ascending. My response was to the question by Ron of "one good reason other the DIR" to avoid integrated units. I think I have given a valid reason although you have chosen to discount it. Ron is not shy, he can pound on me now or anytime we run into each other at the Blue Hole.

I wish you the very best and safest diving possible. I congratulate on thinking about the issues even if we do not agree.

I didn't discount your reason, it was taken into great consideration. You're the reason why the dive instructor got asked about it last night.
The items I listed were just ones that caught my interest that would be looked into as potential buys. The list wasn't compiled yet and the full list was going to be posted on the board to see what everyones thoughts were.

I came here to this board for the knowledge of divers and the information to make myself very informed, with the potential of becoming a better diver when I get out there. You won't catch me on a dive with new equipment unless it's in a pool or a spring down here with almost no risk factor involved until I become comfortable with it and feel that I'm able to support my buddy 100% when using it.

It's also really hard to take some of these posts serious when people are bashing on instructors/trainers or the other random things that come to their mind.
Thanks for the comments at the end.

Jerzi

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I didn't discount your reason, it was taken into great consideration. You're the reason why the dive instructor got asked about it last night.
The items I listed were just ones that caught my interest that would be looked into as potential buys. The list wasn't compiled yet and the full list was going to be posted on the board to see what everyones thoughts were.

I came here to this board for the knowledge of divers and the information to make myself very informed, with the potential of becoming a better diver when I get out there. You won't catch me on a dive with new equipment unless it's in a pool or a spring down here with almost no risk factor involved until I become comfortable with it and feel that I'm able to support my buddy 100% when using it.

It's also really hard to take some of these posts serious when people are bashing on instructors/trainers or the other random things that come to their mind.
Thanks for the comments at the end.

Jerzi

You will notice that on this and other boards people have a very narrow minded view about certain things. The bp/w and long hose debate is one of them. On here it is the law.. In reality most people you see will be in conventional scuba. I have 4 set ups that I dive. Listen to your instructors and you will do well.

 

[carrielsal]

Most instructors and DM's will be wearing what the shop sells. I am a fairly new convert to a BP/W with 7' primary hose, and I was a convert from the day I tried it. But....when I go out with OW classes I have to wear my jacket BC and traditional hose setup.

Carrie

 

[idocsteve]

It's also really hard to take some of these posts serious when people are bashing on instructors/trainers or the other random things that come to their mind.

Excellent point.

You will find quite often on internet discussion boards that marginal posters become easily frustrated when they are not agreed with, and they quickly move from attacking the argument to attacking the poster.

And as you also pointed out, once they do so, they lose complete credibility and no one takes them seriously.

Example

What does it take to become an "idoc" these days? I ask because it is unusual for somebody with a background in science (or fluency in English, for that matter) to use the word "disproven [sic],"

 

[RJP]

Most instructors and DM's will be wearing what the shop sells. I am a fairly new convert to a BP/W with 7' primary hose, and I was a convert from the day I tried it. But....when I go out with OW classes I have to wear my jacket BC and traditional hose setup.

So your shop doesn't sell BP/W, 7' hoses, etc? Too bad. Shop I DM at is very tech oriented and DMs and Instructors are as likely to be teaching in doubles/long-hose etc for OW classes as they are in standard BCD, etc.

I remember doing a night dive in Curacao a year or so ago and the DM was talking to my insta-buddy while pointing at my rig (one piece harness in particular) saying "Now take note that he has a non-standard configuration which will present a significant problem in an emergency..."

He: "Isn't that dangerous?"
Me: "Why?"
He: "If there's a problem, I won't be able to get you out of your gear."
Me: "Just cut the webbing."
He: "With what?"
Me: "Don't you have a knife or other cutting instrument?"
He: "No, why do I need one?" (And I'm diving a non-standard rig?)
Me: "Never mind, I have three. Here, here, and here..."
He: "How do I know if the problem is severe enough to cut you out of your rig?"
Me: "Just start cutting. If I tell you to get your ****ing hands off my gear, I'm fine. If I don't respond...keep cutting."

 

[Splitlip]

Jerzi:
Do what works for you.

I scanned the thread in my hotel room last night. A few things:

Go with what BC works for you. I happen to like back inflates. As was mentioned however, there should never be a need to fully inflate a jacket except at the surface if you want to pop your head up high. As was stated earlier, if you did that with a back inflate, it would tend to push you forward when fully inflated. In which case, you roll back like a recliner(but your head won't be as high as with a jacket).

You live and presumably will be doing most of your diving here. If you were to use a SP Classic which has 60# of lift fully inflated, yes you would get squeezed. Even weighted just "close", you may need 20#. So the squeeze thing is a non issue unless you want to fully inflate at the surface. Fully inflating a jacket at the surface sometimes has more advantages than a back inflate.

Integrated octo inflators are becoming very popular and pretty mainstream here for rec diving. We seldom dive more than a 3 mil suit, so there are not real major swings in buoyancy. An alternate inflator is certainly do-able. And most can be used without removing from the mouth, assuming you are in a head up position.
Instead of a standard primary hose, I like a 40" hose routed under the right arm with a 90 degree fitting at the 2nd stage. Perfect for open water.

I would take an alternate inflator all day long over a standard octo.
I installed an SS1 on my daughter's BC. I have read accounts, and I have run things through my own mind. An out of air diver, unless an experienced,and diciplined buddy, is not going to swim up to another diver in an OOA situation and calmly signal with the OOA sign and wait for the alternate which is supposed to be in the "golden triangle". As is often the case, conventional octos are floating, dragging, stuffed in a pocket or behind a shoulder strap. The reg blowing bubbles is the reg of choice.

When a stranger comes up to my kid and takes her primary from her mouth, I want her to have an alternate on a short little hose that she can find by muscle memory.

Anyway, enjoy the fun.

 

[Stu S.]

Jerzi,

Pay a visit to Dayo Scuba on Executive Drive in Winter Park, off of Lee Road. They have a darn nice back inflate BC for something like $249. They will make sure it fits you right. They can probably show you a few other types, too. Say Stu sent you.

If you get there, look at the building to your left. That is Scuba Board Headquarters!

 

[Jerzi]

Jerzi,

Pay a visit to Dayo Scuba on Executive Drive in Winter Park, off of Lee Road. They have a darn nice back inflate BC for something like $249. They will make sure it fits you right. They can probably show you a few other types, too. Say Stu sent you.

If you get there, look at the building to your left. That is Scuba Board Headquarters!

I actually had a question about this. Do lds's that you have trained at bought some equipment from get upset when you shop outside of their shop?

The one I'm at doesn't have some of the things I want to try out.

After the last session I was talking to the instuctor after the class when everyone left about the wrist hoseless computers and he said he didn't like the aeris, he said he saw two of them fail when he was out at cozumel just recently I think. He was also showing me his D9 suunto and the dive profiles on the laptop and what it is capable of. He said they're much more conservative with the algorithms with deco times over the aeris models and suggested a cobra 2.

I was just wondering if the LDSs sell equipment based on what they dive and the companies who they deal with?

 

[vladimir]

Excellent point.

You will find quite often on internet discussion boards that marginal posters become easily frustrated when they are not agreed with, and they quickly move from attacking the argument to attacking the poster.

And as you also pointed out, once they do so, they lose complete credibility and no one takes them seriously.

Example

What does it take to become an "idoc" these days? I ask because it is unusual for somebody with a background in science (or fluency in English, for that matter) to use the word "disproven [sic],"

Pretty weak--not to say cowardly--to take issue with my post here rather than in the thread I posted it in. You said something stupid and I called you on it. If that costs me credibility with you, so be it. I notice you did not address the issue I raised in the original, unedited post.

That was only my second post to that thread (the first one was a question), and I hadn't engaged you or anybody else in a debate. (In fact, I agree with you and the OP, for the most part--and have addressed the same issue in other threads myself.) So if frustration provoked my post it was frustration at the tone that you took to make your point. Perhaps I should have been more direct, like the OP was when he asked you to "give it a rest":

Hey Idoc give it a rest.

even though you were agreeing with him.

I do not use my ignore list. But there are a few people on the board who I just can't seem to get along with, for whatever reason. One of them I respect; you fall into the other category. I have asked those three people to not respond to my posts and I extend them the same courtesy. Please feel free to respond to this post and then let's, please, never again respond to one another's posts. Thank you.