BC question

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Isn't it force of habit to blow bubbles when you don't have an air source?
I know that I do it now without even thinking about it if the reg comes out of my mouth and this is only after a few sessions in the pool.

So, you want to be that a of habit practiced in the pool for a few hours will ALWAYS overcome a natural instinct to hold ones breath under water that has been reinforced your entire life? Under extreme stress with a freaked out diver next to you? No thanks!
 
I was getting really excited at this point over the BC, but the real test would come from how it felt when I was under the water. I released some air from the BC and started down in to the great depths of the 12 foot pool while catching neutral buoyancy before the bottom. I started to scuba around and it was amazing, It felt like I was naked with the tank gently resting on my back. When I came back up to the surface I was sold.

Why is it that back inflate gets downplayed that much?
Is it a lot different in open ocean water with swells at the surface?

What Water said. You just had a taste of Instant Gratification, but didn't get the whole picture.

Any BC style would work just fine, assuming it's the right size and adjusted properly, and all styles have trade-offs, and no style will instantly kill you.

Back-inflates and BP/W trade ease of being stable in any position underwater, for a tendency to keep you horizontal underwater. Generally horizontal is nice, unless you're doing a lot of diving where you want to hang at some odd angle half-way under a ledge to take a picture or grab a tasty crustacean, in which case something that tries to keep you horizontal is annoying.

A stabilizing jacket like the SCUBAPro Classic doesn't have any positions where it's significantly more stable, since the air bubble moves around as you change position. It trades being easily horizontal for the ability to hang in pretty much any position.

That said, if you're properly weighted, neither should be doing much of anything underwater, since they'll both be pretty much empty most of the time. If you saw a huge difference between styles when trying it in the pool, I'll guess that you weren't properly weighted and/or trimmed or had the wrong size BC.

I own both a BP/W and a SCUBAPro Classic+ and dive both of them regularly. They're both "nice", but if I was stuck diving only one, I wouldn't be all that upset at either of them. It's just not that big a deal.

Terry
 
I think the best reason not to used a combined unit is simply not wanting to remove your air source from your mouth (to vent) while ascending in an emergency situation. It is just too easy to hold your breath in this case while ascending and having an additional medical emergency. KISS works for me, one extra hose is not going to break the bank.

From an engineering standpoint, anything designed to serve two different purposes de facto requires that compromises be made on both.

From a reality standpoint, most things designed to serve two different purposes tend to do neither of them well.

My take on the integrated inflator octo (and I've posted this before) is that they are like the little donut spare tires created to save room in your trunk: they seem like a great idea...right up until the point where you actually need to use them for their intended purpose.

Not saying "your gonna die" if you dive with one, but that if you're gonna buy one you need to understand the trade-offs you're making. Most new divers have no idea, nor do they have the experience to truly make an informed decision.
 
I asked some of my instructors why they didn't use a back inflate and they said it dumped them face first on the surface.
Jerzi

Avoid these "instructors" like the plague. They have no idea what the heck they're talking about.:shakehead:

Once you go BPW, you don't go back.:D
 
Actually I have used one in an emergency. No different than if I used my Cave rig. With the exception that I know my cave partners are not going to be panicked. Its just as easy with integrated, to say different is foolish. A panicked diver could possibly get away from you with a long hose and thats the only thing I dont like. To each his own but if you cant aid a diver on one the you probably dont have the skills to do period. Not directed as a slam to you scubaRich. Its not meant as such.

My problem with them is NOT that "I" couldn't perform a sucsessful rescue with one.
It's the brand new diver who goes to his/her LDS and gets set up with an intigrated alternate that they have no idea how it is to be used. You may not have a problem with one, You're "advanced" trained. And don't worry, I don't take it a a slam to me, I have seen new divers confused with it's use while it's been on their bc for months and while I'm in the shop if a customer asks about them, I explain how to use it and more times than not, They choose against it.
 
I asked some of my instructors why they didn't use a back inflate and they said it dumped them face first on the surface.

Avoid these "instructors" like the plague. They have no idea what the heck they're talking about.:shakehead:

Sadly, they know what they are talking about. They just have no idea what they're doing! (ie: they do in fact get dumped face first in a back inflate BCD)

:eyebrow:
 
I've been in the OW class for a few weeks now and was reading up on the boards about back inflate BCs and wondered what one would feel like. I asked some of my instructors why they didn't use a back inflate and they said it dumped them face first on the surface. I perceived it was almost as bad as someone dunking you under water and you really couldn't control it. One of the younger instructors I talked to at the dive shop said he absolutely loved his back inflate and would let me try it out in the pool that night.

I put it on and it had no cumberbund and really appreciated that fact because I don't like them, rather have a crotch strap. The instructor showed me the inflate/deflate and I was off. The first thing I noticed was the freedom I felt around the front part of my body. I then tested the buoyancy at the surface waiting for it to push me head first into the water. I felt what the non back inflate instructors had mentioned, but after adjusting to it for a couple of seconds after using the other BC for a couple of weeks it felt a lot more natural, like I was just standing there instead of floating.

I was getting really excited at this point over the BC, but the real test would come from how it felt when I was under the water. I released some air from the BC and started down in to the great depths of the 12 foot pool while catching neutral buoyancy before the bottom. I started to scuba around and it was amazing, It felt like I was naked with the tank gently resting on my back. When I came back up to the surface I was sold.

Why is it that back inflate gets downplayed that much?
Is it a lot different in open ocean water with swells at the surface?

I really can't see why everyone wouldn't be trained in these, is it just easier for instructors to train unexperienced people that have never dove before in the standard type BC or is it by instructor preference?

Thanks guys,

Jerzi

Ultimately the BCD, like everything else used in diving - is a "personal preference."

The two words - "personal preference" should become ingrained in every divers vocabulary. Opinions regarding which BCD you should dive or which regulator you should dive almost inevitably lead to disagreement and arguments on this board.

Why? because everyone has an opinion. Obviously each Instructor (dive shop) needs to make a decision regarding the gear they're going to provide to their students for training... and the gear they choose is largely based on their personal preference.

You as a new diver should also make your decision based on your own personal preference, not on someone elses recommendation. Make every effort to try different things before committing to a purchase.. and remember that just because divers and even some instructors can speak from experience, doesn't mean their experience correlates to what is best for you.

Work on purchasing gear from a dive shop that listens to you, asks you about the type of diving you'll be doing, what your likes and dislikes are, is willing to let you try different things before committing to a purchase and most importantly doesn't try to convince you that you need something.

Someone once told me there are no "needs" in scuba... only "wants." I believe that. You don't need a BP/Wing because some DIR guy says you do. What you need is a buoyancy compensation device... which may be a BP/Wing or it may be a standard jacket style.. and when making a purchasing decision, you should get what YOU want.

It is a "personal preference." You should get what you are personally comfortable in - what fits you well - and what has the bells and whistles YOU want.

There will always be someone trying to tell you what you need... just remember - you don't need to be a drone. You want to be a diver... and divers dive what they want.

There is no dive on earth requiring one type of BCD over another. I can do any dive on this planet in any type of BCD being produced today... and so can you.

As for why Back inflates are down-played... I don't think they are. Where I'm from jacket styles are down-played. I guess this is a local personal preference : )

Cheers.. and dive what you want!
 
From an engineering standpoint, anything designed to serve two different purposes de facto requires that compromises be made on both.

From a reality standpoint, most things designed to serve two different purposes tend to do neither of them well.

My take on the integrated inflator octo (and I've posted this before) is that they are like the little donut spare tires created to save room in your trunk: they seem like a great idea...right up until the point where you actually need to use them for their intended purpose.

Not saying "your gonna die" if you dive with one, but that if you're gonna buy one you need to understand the trade-offs you're making. Most new divers have no idea, nor do they have the experience to truly make an informed decision.

This is a great post including the analogy

Analogies are cool

Especially when they're spot on.
 
So, you want to be that a of habit practiced in the pool for a few hours will ALWAYS overcome a natural instinct to hold ones breath under water that has been reinforced your entire life? Under extreme stress with a freaked out diver next to you? No thanks!

If I had that kind of thought process I wouldn't dive, it's kind of like saying I wouldn't be able to buddy breathe because I would probably hold my breath or if I had to make an emergency ascent I would hold my breath.

The habit is going to be praticed with buddies in all types of conditions and it will be praticed with whatever gear I aquire. If I feel it is not adequate or do not feel it can be safely perfomed in a controlled situation by me I will try a different setup.

It's not natural to hold my breath anymore because my brain understands it can cause death, but mistakes can be made and it can happen in any type of situation even with the most experienced divers and that is a risk I'm willing to take with every dive.


I asked the instructor and he said you can just use the dump valve on it and still breathe through it as he demostrated.
 
What Water said. You just had a taste of Instant Gratification, but didn't get the whole picture.

That said, if you're properly weighted, neither should be doing much of anything underwater, since they'll both be pretty much empty most of the time. If you saw a huge difference between styles when trying it in the pool, I'll guess that you weren't properly weighted and/or trimmed or had the wrong size BC.

They were both properly weighted, trim was fine and correct size jacket BC. Both acted the same as I was finning through the pool neutrally buoyant, maybe a slight difference. The thing that I really noticed was the freedom I felt resting my arms just finning around, like I didn't have a jacket on. Are you saying with certain types of stabalizing and front adjustable BCs should feel like a back inflate BC?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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