Why breathe from a long hose?

[Cave Diver]

Danobee is right: You ran out of air (or got way low), you've proven you don't know what you are
doing. So the donor is the boss.

There are several reasons why someone could be low/out of air that have nothing to do with whether they know what they are doing or not. The term is "Failure."

I don't think you can assume that someone is out of control simply based on them being low on air. If they had a problem and they managed it with out panicking that lends more credibility IMO that they do know what they are doing.

People on both sides can cite issues to bolster their view point, but generalities like this can be counter productive.

OTOH, if the diver appears panicky the donor needs to take whatever steps are necessary to control the situation safely.

 

[dannobee]

Well, if we're part of a buddy team tech diving, that's one thing.

If I'm solo or on vacation and somebody swims up to me, out of gas, and I have only a second or two to evaluate them, I'll stick with what Chuck said; the guy's an idiot and got himself somewhere he shouldn't have been. He'll have to prove to me that he can control himself in a rational, cogent manner.

Maybe some people don't have the training to control the situation, as anyone who is a DM or higher has, but some of us do. We'll do what we've been trained to do.


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There are several reasons why someone could be low/out of air that have nothing to do with whether they know what they are doing or not. The term is "Failure."

I don't think you can assume that someone is out of control simply based on them being low on air. If they had a problem and they managed it with out panicking that lends more credibility IMO that they do know what they are doing.

People on both sides can cite issues to bolster their view point, but generalities like this can be counter productive.

OTOH, if the diver appears panicky the donor needs to take whatever steps are necessary to control the situation safely.

 

[Hinalo]

Ianr33, I just can't bring myself to believe that, at 80 ft with you OOA for whatever reason, you would start fighting because, as I gave you a reg I also clasped your right forearm. I don't know you, but I just can't believe that would actually happen.

And believe me, if you demonstrate that you are able to make a nice controlled ascent then I am delighted to leave that to you and not work any harder than I have to.

In this situation I am watching you very closely for behavioral cues that will tell me fairly accurately how much or how little management you require. If you had a problem with something I did while saving your life, then I think we would probably work that out topside.

 

[Divenomad]

There are several reasons why someone could be low/out of air that have nothing to do with whether they know what they are doing or not. The term is "Failure."

I don't think you can assume that someone is out of control simply based on them being low on air. If they had a problem and they managed it with out panicking that lends more credibility IMO that they do know what they are doing.

People on both sides can cite issues to bolster their view point, but generalities like this can be counter productive.

OTOH, if the diver appears panicky the donor needs to take whatever steps are necessary to control the situation safely.

Respectfully:

My position comes from the idea that while I cannot guarantee a diver will be out of control, I absolutely cannot assume they will be in control of themselves. They might have nerves of ice. I don't know. I cannot guarantee I would not panic in an OOG situation, how can I possibly assume anyone else will not panic? In four donations, I was forced to assume control of the situation.That's a 100% hit rate. Given that experience, well, I'm going to operate on a worst case scenario. In one situation, I had a diver panic while breathing my gas halfway through an ascent. Everything started fine, but the diver decided I was not ascending quickly enough and tried to drag me to the surface by swimming like crazy and attempting to hit hit the elevator button (uselessly).

Sorry, if you breathe my gas, I'm in charge. We can what if all day and night. But it's my life, and I'm not risking that, The fact that you disagree does not change the fact it's my life that is at risk.

Nomad

 

[Cave Diver]

Respectfully:

My position comes from the idea that while I cannot guarantee a diver will be out of control, I absolutely cannot assume they will be in control of themselves. They might have nerves of ice. I don't know. I cannot guarantee I would not panic in an OOG situation, how can I possibly assume anyone else will not panic? In four donations, I was forced to assume control of the situation.That's a 100% hit rate. Given that experience, well, I'm going to operate on a worst case scenario. In one situation, I had a diver panic while breathing my gas halfway through an ascent. Everything started fine, but the diver decided I was not ascending quickly enough and tried to drag me to the surface by swimming like crazy and attempting to hit hit the elevator button (uselessly).

Sorry, if you breathe my gas, I'm in charge. We can what if all day and night. But it's my life, and I'm not risking that, The fact that you disagree does not change the fact it's my life that is at risk.

Nomad

I can understand your point and respect that it's your gas. I think the problem is that many people are painting all OOG situations with the same brush.

An example: Diver in cold environment has a reg freeze and start to free flow violently close to the end of a dive. Their options are to feather the valve, or to shut it down and share air with someone else when surfacing.

A diver that has a problem who follows training and makes an informed choice does not, IMO require the same response that a panicky diver who ran out of gas and is ready to bolt by any means necessary.

 

[pacificgal]

I'm going to be in Monterey this weekend, Sat night for a night dive at Breakwater and Sunday, somewhere... Can someone show me what this long hose, bungied backup looks like? I.e., I want to see it on you. I can come to you, if you want.

 

[Cave Diver]

Because in the vast majority of OOG emergencies, the receiver needs to be controlled. If you are out of gas, you lost control of the situation.

Well, if we're part of a buddy team tech diving, that's one thing.

If I'm solo or on vacation and somebody swims up to me, out of gas, and I have only a second or two to evaluate them, I'll stick with what Chuck said; the guy's an idiot and got himself somewhere he shouldn't have been. He'll have to prove to me that he can control himself in a rational, cogent manner.

I agree that different scenarios call for different responses. There is no one-size-fits-all response to an OOG scenario and the first priority is to not become a victim yourself.

 

[Peter_C]

Every OOA situation is going to be different and that is why we need to be thinking divers.

Well, if we're part of a buddy team tech diving, that's one thing.

YUP! With my regular dive buddies I would never think to grab a hold of them. We will do an air share and confirm everything is OK then head towards our exit point or surface. Our dive plan always has contingencies for failures, and we often practice skills and drills.

If I'm solo or on vacation and somebody swims up to me, out of gas, and I have only a second or two to evaluate them, I'll stick with what Chuck said; the guy's an idiot and got himself somewhere he shouldn't have been. He'll have to prove to me that he can control himself in a rational, cogent manner.

If there is an unknown person that needs air, I would not hesitate to keep in direct contact with them. Most likely it would not be at our normal dive locations either though.

Either circumstance would still benefit from utilizing a long hose and donating the reg you are breathing from.

 

[dannobee]

I'm going to be in Monterey this weekend, Sat night for a night dive at Breakwater and Sunday, somewhere... Can someone show me what this long hose, bungied backup looks like? I.e., I want to see it on you. I can come to you, if you want.

Equipment Images

 

[pacificgal]

OK, the bungied backup is pretty clear, and I see the long hose across the chest from the right hip over the left shoulder and back down over the left shoulder? Doesn't it stick out in the back where it comes off the tank? If it gets pulled out of your mouth for some reason is the process to recover it different from the sweep? Is it clipped at the hip?
PS, that gear config looks intimidating to someone who doesn't understand it.