Suspended Course Director

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I agree....The problem isn´t the standards it´s that DMs who can´t hover (for example) are still certified by instructors...

I think it´s gone on for so long now that people in the PADI-system can go all the way to instructor/CD without ever "seeing the bar"...

I´m just a PADI DM but the stuff I saw in my DM-class was sort of scary and is a big part of why I´ll never go further (within PADI)...
 
Whoa, pardna... I most definitely am confused, but if I'm not then I think I see the problem.

You just got OW certified, and you went to Mexico to get the remainder of your courses up to IDC? In one trip?

I think I might see the reason the course director lost his accreditation.
:lol:​

Some Instructors are already milled out by programs with low standards. Enjoy your vacation, learn to dive, then think about a reputable Inst course.
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For the record, PADI states that one must be a certified diver for at least 6 months before going to an IE.

I did my OWSI with a 5 star IDC center that does zero to hero programs. We have an intern here now who is doing the ZTH, and is going to his IE in July. He's already nearing 200 dives, has DMed our dive boat at least a few dozen times, has interacted with plenty of instructors, tech divers, students, and customers. He's assisted/sat in with plenty of courses. He's also done most of this in front of the course director.

Now, we could have a DM who's log book says he's got 101 dives, has done the bare minimum to pass his DM, and shows up to an IDC center and does his 10 day IDC and passes his IE. He's now an OWSI. But he's been a certified diver for 3 years...

Who do you think would be better qualified as an OWSI?

Zero-to-hero, if done properly, can be a good thing. Just something to think about.
 
For the record, PADI states that one must be a certified diver for at least 6 months before going to an IE.

I did my OWSI with a 5 star IDC center that does zero to hero programs. We have an intern here now who is doing the ZTH, and is going to his IE in July. He's already nearing 200 dives, has DMed our dive boat at least a few dozen times, has interacted with plenty of instructors, tech divers, students, and customers. He's assisted/sat in with plenty of courses. He's also done most of this in front of the course director.

Now, we could have a DM who's log book says he's got 101 dives, has done the bare minimum to pass his DM, and shows up to an IDC center and does his 10 day IDC and passes his IE. He's now an OWSI. But he's been a certified diver for 3 years...

Who do you think would be better qualified as an OWSI?

Zero-to-hero, if done properly, can be a good thing. Just something to think about.
I know the PADI six month rule and it is a bare minimum piece of sense! Your points are good but since once again we are singling out PADI, I think there are a number of things that should in theory already be done and others that could be introduced.

1. Maybe RD is not enough as a prerequisite for DM. Maybe it should be RD and say three "tough" specialties? Just an idea. Maybe it should be MSD before Going Pro?
2. If I remember rightly, when I did DM (which I did NOT do as an intern because I had already been helping out the center where I did it with equipment and organization and following up on students almost since I got rec certified) there was a DLD part. Very cleverly the CD sprang it on me at the last minute in a place I didn't know very well , sundown coming on real fast and guiding two divers. One was an OWSI (but I wasn't told that) and the other an AOW "with problems" (tendency to not use enough weights on his belt and so have problems at the end of the dive when there was less air in his tank: I wasn't told that either). When the dive finished, I find out that the CD had asked the OWSI, who I had never met before, for a full report.
3. PADI could start an electronic logbook system? The logged dives could be on a central PADI computer and therefore all PADI pro's could check the dives online introducing a keyword given by the diver? Maybe logged dives could be kept on a pen drive by the diver? Other agencies could share the system?
4. IE exists as a cut off. Last month there was an IE in Europe.11 candidates, only 3 passed. Sounds about right to me. The examiner is totally independent. So how do non qualified candidates get through IE?
5. I think students could get involved in the DM certification process. PADI could check anonymously with "senior students" say RDs that have been on course with a DM before processing the DMs paperwork?

Of course all of this brings up the question of what we all expect a DM or an OWSI to be, do, perform, etc. Maybe a guy is great as a teacher though not the best diver in the world? Maybe a great diver is a crap teacher? Look at business schools for example. It's pretty obvious that in the good ones the professors are great but are not great businessmen. Having said that, in other walks of life, effectively to become an Instructor or a Professor it is normally beacuse first and foremost you are real good at what you do and the professional organization you belong to invites you or asks you if you would like to be one.

Finally the ZTH problem has to take into account that there will always be people who excell at diving and have the leadership and dive skills that others may need more time to get to or may never reach. How do we sort the wheat from the chaff?
 
Does anyone have any idea why a Platinum course director from PADI would be suspended.
Suspension of a PADI professional not infrequently indicates a violation of standards, most likely a willful, conscious, and/or repeated violation, or something so eggregious that the individual cannot be allowed to continue to function as a dive professional in the PADI system. For a Platinum CD (who has trained at least 100 Instructor-level candidates) to be suspended suggests at least the possibility of a significant violation (or a failure to pay renewal fees).
dwnunder:
My question is has this ever happened to anyone,
Not to me.
dwnunder:
and do you think I might have a recourse in getting some compensation for the trip and lost expectations. Is this something PADI might be able to help me or have I just lost 600 dollars in airfare and 300 in hotel room.
I do not see that PADI has any involvement or responsibility in this case. Your decision to 'sign up' with this CD for an IDC was an independent business decision, and the relationship was between you and the (suspended) individual. PADI might, as a good faith action, assist you in finding another IDC nearby, but they have no financial responsbility.

THe ZTH discussion is interesting. And, while PADI is the certifying agency involved here, and a frequent target for the 'low/slipped/whatever standards' argument, the ZTH phenomenon exists in many disciplines. General aviation, for example, is full of ZTH flight instructors, who can go from student pilot to flight instructor in a rather short period of time, with a rather small number of logged flight hours. Can the FAA be accused of having lax standards, and operating merely for profit? Well, any organization probably can be accused. But the FAA is generally pretty anal retentive about standards, and 'profit' is probably not a high priority. Are these minimum hour instructors good at what they do? It depends on how you define 'good'. They train Private Pilots, who pass check rides and fly safely. But, in many cases these ZTH instructors have limited flight experience, limited life experience, and somewhat limited maturity in more than a few instances. However, they have met all of the requirements to be a CFI.
 
For a Platinum CD (who has trained at least 100 Instructor-level candidates) to be suspended suggests at least the possibility of a significant violation (or a failure to pay renewal fees).
Colliam, thanks for explaining the Platinum CD thing, I was beginning to think it was someone who had sold a lot of records! Could you give some more detail on this, please, so that I can be properly educated? Are there silver, gold, platinum and diamond CDs or how does this work? What happens when a guy has say 500 Instructor level candidates? Does he become an Examiner?:confused: Thanks in advance.
 
HMM I have no horse in this race but found this interesting direct from PADI Open Water Scuba Instructor Program

How long will it take?

* Times can vary from four days to three weeks or more

FOUR DAYS!! WOW . . . note to self next instructor needs to be asked how long their IDC was . . .

Here is something else I found . . it is not until you get to the IDC Staff Course that they place an age requirement . . .

IDC Staff Instructor

What do I need to start?*

* PADI Master Scuba Diver Trainer certification
* 18 years old
 
FOUR DAYS!! WOW . . . note to self next instructor needs to be asked how long their IDC was . . .Here is something else I found . . it is not until you get to the IDC Staff Course that they place an age requirement . . .
Wow, 15 year old OWSIs and 18 year old Staff Instructors?. Thanks for the post. I have just realized that my whole life has been a failure because according to that theory I should either be a 6 star Admiral in the Navy by now or have my very own certification agency. :shakehead: sorry, mom and dad, I failed you...:11:
 
Wow, 15 year old OWSIs and 18 year old Staff Instructors?. Thanks for the post. I have just realized that my whole life has been a failure because according to that theory I should either be a 6 star Admiral in the Navy by now or have my very own certification agency. :shakehead: sorry, mom and dad, I failed you...:11:

:rofl3: You are a FAILURE!!!!!!
 

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