nitrox downsides

[RIHappyDiver]

@poko21 , sorry you have to go through this, but this is basic thread progression on ScubaBoard.

So, yes, as long as you stick within the rules that you were taught in your class, there is no real downside. There may be dives that you want to do where air is a better choice, but seldom. Also, there may be a point where you go into tech diving and that will be a whole different ball of wax.

For now, dive all the nitrox you want, and enjoy yourself!

Erik

 

[gamon]

I know a lady diver who can no longer use nitrox.
Yet her physical condition and age, 68, mean that she should be using nitrox.
nitrox irritates her lungs; she coughs when she gets out of the water and feels a burning sensation for hours.
when she uses air, she doesn't cough and her lungs aren't irritated.

HA HA HA HA HA that's a good one.

 

[gamon]

Now that's interesting. Any idea why this happens?

Overly active imagination, vulnerability and naivity possibly combined with a strong belief in conspiracy theories.

Another possibility is that this particular lady doesn't fully understand the complexities and proper usage of nitrox and experiences a moderate degree anxiety when she knows she'll be diving with it. To ease her anxiety prior to the dive she chain smokes a few cigarettes before splashing.

 

[Scuba-guy]

tips are a gratuity and not mandatory, In Japan tipping is seen as an insult. No requirement to tip anywhere really. In places like Philippines I wont tip cash but buy a lechon pig so all the staff & boat crew and guides get a good feed in.

You're suggesting, in the BASIC SCUBA sub forum, which is viewed and posted to by BEGINNER divers, that narcosis is a good thing and should be embraced.. because it feels good?

Seems irresponsible.

And paying for nitrox and not giving the DM who is responsible for your safety the money instead is responsible? How many selfish divers paid for nitrox and didn't tip the DM anything? The answer is most of them. The DM gets paid half of what a tank of nitrox cost per diver. 6 divers for one DM only $14 per dive. By me they charge $6.66 extra for a nitrox tank but only pay less than $2.50 to the DM for each diver per dive. Anyone who pays for nitrox should also pay the DM at least as much as they paid for the nitrox, or better yet skip the nitrox and just pay the DM, you'll get more bang for your buck.

 

[poko21]

@poko21 , sorry you have to go through this, but this is basic thread progression on ScubaBoard.

So, yes, as long as you stick within the rules that you were taught in your class, there is no real downside. There may be dives that you want to do where air is a better choice, but seldom. Also, there may be a point where you go into tech diving and that will be a whole different ball of wax.

For now, dive all the nitrox you want, and enjoy yourself!

Erik

perfect thank you!

 

[gamon]

And paying for nitrox and not giving the DM who is responsible for your safety the money instead is responsible?

Nitrox provides a tangible benefit.

As does any well trained and responsible diver, I don't rely on a DM for my safety. In fact often times I consider them to be an annoying distraction that I don't want and didn't ask for.

 

[gamon]

The DM gets paid half of what a tank of nitrox cost per diver. 6 divers for one DM only $14 per dive. By me they charge $6.66 extra for a nitrox tank but only pay less than $2.50 to the DM for each diver per dive. Anyone who pays for nitrox should also pay the DM at least as much as they paid for the nitrox, or better yet skip the nitrox and just pay the DM, you'll get more bang for your buck.

Because I went through the trouble of reading all this and trying to decipher your twisted and convoluted mathematical equations I now have a frontal lobe headache. In retribution, on my next dive trip I will not tip the crew anything.

 

[crofrog]

You're suggesting that millions of recreational divers are doing themselves some sort of grave disservice because they don't use trimix when diving within recreational limits?

I mean define grave, they're increasing their risks factors. Gas density increases CO2 retention. It causes the diver to exert higher negative pressures to inhale increases the risk of IPE, and increases the risk of dyspnea. IPE is probably one of the single biggest risk factors facing scuba divers, and IPEs are believed to be significantly more common than previously reported. (Divers Alert Network, n.d.)

Let's think about what elevated pCO2 does.

• CO2 is a vasodilator
  • This increases your risk of DCS probably because of vasodilation during the on-gassing phase of the dive. (Daubresse et al., 2024).
  • It increases your risk of CNS O2 toxicity
• CO2 is has 20x more narcotic potency than N2. (Clark, J.E., 2015)
• CO2 increases anxiety and reduces executive function (Savulich et al, 2019)

This makes it easy for gas density to start to create a positive feedback loop, where gas density causes the diver to have a harder time breathing, which increases breathing rate, which decreases gas exchange, which increases CO2 retention, which increases anxiety and narcosis, which in turn increases breathing rate, so on and so forth.

It's interesting how different people believe things that have no merit or basis in fact.

Agreed.




Divers Alert Network. (n.d.). What is the common risk faced by recreation, technical and breath-hold divers?https://dan.org/safety-prevention/d...-recreation-technical-and-breath-hold-divers/

Daubresse, L., Vallée, N., Druelle, A., Castagna, O., Guieu, R., & Blatteau, J. E. (2024). Effects of CO₂ on the occurrence of decompression sickness: review of the literature. Diving and hyperbaric medicine, 54(2), 110–119. Diving and Hyperbaric Medicine - Abstracts 2024 54 (2)

Clark, J.E. Moving in extreme environments: inert gas narcosis and underwater activities.
Extrem Physiol Med 4, 1 (2015). Moving in extreme environments: inert gas narcosis and underwater activities - Extreme Physiology & Medicine

Savulich, G., Hezemans, F.H., van Ghesel Grothe, S. et al. Acute anxiety and autonomic arousal induced by CO2 inhalation impairs prefrontal executive functions in healthy humans. Transl Psychiatry 9, 296 (2019). Acute anxiety and autonomic arousal induced by CO2 inhalation impairs prefrontal executive functions in healthy humans - Translational Psychiatry

 

[gamon]

I mean define grave, they're increasing their risks factors

Ok, so lets assume all of that stuff and the references you posted are all valid and there is some slight advantage/safety margin to breathing trimix at depths greater than 100 up to the 130' limit (for recreational divers so certified).

It's not practical or economically feasible to pay for, nor for dive ops and shops to supply trimix (and the required equipment to produce it) to millions of recreational scuba divers.

It's like saying we should all carry a backpack with a parachute inside of it whenever we board a commercial airliner.

 

[jborg]

There's a spectrum at play here, as well. Do we need trimix to take a short dip down to 33m under calm tropical circumstances as part of an otherwise slightly shallower dive? I think most would agree, no. Would I plan a cold water wreck dive to 40m on air? Also no. I suspect most of the "bah, trimix shlimix" people are talking more about the first kind of recreational dive than the latter?