nitrox downsides

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Ok, so lets assume all of that stuff and the references you posted are all valid and there is some slight advantage/safety margin to breathing trimix at depths greater than 100 up to the 130' limit (for recreational divers so certified).

It's not practical or economically feasible to pay for, nor for dive ops and shops to supply trimix (and the required equipment to produce it) to millions of recreational scuba divers.

It's like saying we should all carry a backpack with a parachute inside of it whenever we board a commercial airliner.
The analogy comparing trimix use in recreational diving to parachutes on airliners overlooks a critical distinction. Parachutes address extremely rare, high-consequence failures in the safest industry in existence, while gas density, narcosis, and CO₂ retention affect every diver on every deep dive.

In risk management, not all risks can be eliminated, but they must be visible and understood. Divers must assess their own risk tolerances, yet current recreational diving curricula across Open Water, Advanced Open Water, and Deep Diving certifications from major training agencies fail to address these physiological hazards. At depths between 100 and 130 feet, gas density and CO₂ retention are rarely discussed. As a result, divers are often unaware of the trade-offs they are making or the potential benefits of using helium-based mixes to improve safety.

Citing cost or economic feasibility as the primary reason to avoid trimix use in recreational depths is a flawed approach to safety. Cost is a factor, but it should not be the deciding factor. If cost were the main filter for risk management, we would not use redundant regulators, dive computers, or surface signaling equipment. Many accepted safety practices in diving carry additional costs, yet are widely adopted because they reduce the likelihood or severity of incidents. The value of a mitigation strategy should be based on its ability to reduce risk, not just its price tag.
 
nope
never
I was interested because of I've heard of smoking contributing pulmonary O2 tox, what you described was very similar to what I felt when I started having pulmonary o2 symptoms.

It's crazy how much individual variability there is in all of this.
 
I meant that the advantage of trimix over nitrox for recreational divers cannot be verified if there are no verifiable aka measurable outcomes that demonstrate what those studies are suggesting. It's all theoretical, or at least, the effects of those gases on divers both positive and negative may have no practical application for divers in that particular group (recreational divers in depths of 100-130') if there are no serious/permanent effects
While your call for measurable outcomes to justify trimix over nitrox at recreational depths is understandable, the argument overemphasizes the need for practical, observable data when existing research already confirms trimix’s physiological benefits. We know that helium reduces gas density, work of breathing, and narcosis compared to nitrox, directly mitigating risks like CO₂ retention and cognitive impairment that affect every diver on deep dives. These aren’t theoretical. They’re measurable physiological improvements, even if their impact on incident rates (e.g., immersion pulmonary edema or CO₂ toxicity) isn’t fully quantified in recreational contexts.

Requiring “serious/permanent effects” to validate trimix ignores how subtle impairments, like decreased mental capacity or error propensity can escalate into cascade failures.
 
Ok, well then I suppose we can agree that for those recreational divers who want to experience subtle, measurable (in studies only) positive physiological effects of trimix that remain unquantified when diving over 100' they're welcome to pay the additional cost of tri-mix if they can even find it.
How many trimix dives do you have?
 
@bardass

I can't find a single reference to a person experiencing symptoms such as the ones you describe with this lady, anywhere.

Some sort of odd placebo effect simply cannot be ruled out.

I suggest you do the following:

1- double blind study where the lady in question alternately dives a few tanks of air and a few tanks of nitrox, and reports her symptoms to a person who records them, that same person does not know which tank holds which blend.

2- In the event there is a definite statistical correlation to back up her claims the next step would be to have her dive a 22% blend, increasing the 02 percentage over a series of dives to determine at what level the symptoms begin, again doing this as a "double blind" study with the lady diver and the person recording any symptoms not knowing what she's actually breathing.

That way you can not only verify that her claims are real and valid but also determine at what level she can enjoy the benefits of nitrox without experiencing symptoms. I'm sort of surprised that a trimix and nitrox instructor wouldn't have thought of that.


Come on...
This lady isn't some monkey we can experiment on...
Her pulmonologist advised her to stop diving with nitrox or to limit her exposure to nitrox because she has been diagnosed with pulmonary weakness (I don't know the details, medical confidentiality).
She is still allowed to dive to 20m but less often.
That's why she dives less.

The irritating effects of oxygen are well known; rebreather divers who make long stops are familiar with them.
On an other hand, oxygen therapy sessions consist of alternating oxygen and air breathing (25 min oxygen - 5 min air - 25 min oxygen - 5 min air, etc.). Because of irritating effects, among other things.

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Admittedly, this is the first time I have encountered such a case
But stop talking about placebo when we hear dry coughing fits after diving...
 
You're talking **** ...
You don't know this diver, yet you're imagining what she might be like, what she might believe...

I am a nitrox and trimix instructor in France, Oc and CCR.
My colleagues and I encourage all divers to use nitrox and trimix as much as possible.

We trained this lady in nitrox diving given her age and physical condition. She is enthusiastic and request about nitrox when the shops couldn't supply it.

Several months after her training, we noticed her hoarse cough when she came up from her dives.
She also told us about a burning sensation in her lungs and dry mucous membranes.
These are known effects of oxygen therapy.
But I had never encountered such cases with the use of nitrox in diving.
It is a fact that some divers are much more sensitive than others to oxygen inhalation.
Unfortunately, this diver now dives much less than before (she has gone from 30-40 dives to less than 15 dives per year) because she still wants to dive with nitrox and not use air.

The partial pressure of O2 (pO2) rather than the fraction should be the relevant measure. If she wants to keep diving nitrox, I would explore the pO2 level where her discomfort begins. Once established, it should be simple enough to tailor the mix and/or the depth with that limit in mind.
 
@bardass

I can't find a single reference to a person experiencing symptoms such as the ones you describe with this lady, anywhere.


"While there are theoretical models that predict the expected level of pulmonary function deficit because of prolonged exposure to raised PiO2 that are based upon the expected decline in FVC, there is considerable individual variation in susceptibility to a uniform degree of pulmonary oxygen poisoning [3,4,5]. Currently, there are no methods to predict individual susceptibility to PO2tox. Furthermore, a sensitive non-invasive biomarker that can detect changes in lung pathology at an early stage in the oxygen toxicity process has remained elusive."

Fothergill, D.M.; Gertner, J.W. Exhaled Nitric Oxide and Pulmonary Oxygen Toxicity Susceptibility. Metabolites 2023, 13, 930. https://doi.org/10.3390/metabo13080930
 
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