Cave diver drowns - Jackson Blue Springs, Florida

[rsingler]

I would only note that it was a fascinating look into our approach to problem solving to listen to this video, and then reread all 33 pages (after multiple off-topic deletions and new threads) in the light of Edd's commentary.
There was a lot of early anguish, but in retrospect, there was a lot of educated speculation that in many cases materially touched on the cause of death.
My takeaway? It is only experience, beyond training and "book learnin" that will enable the necessary calmness in the face of a life-threatening, unexpected problem. Some few of us can remain calm in any situation. The rest have to have acquired enough near-misses to realize during the event that "I can probably get myself out of this - what should I do next?", and stay calm. Training can only get you so far. Necessary, but not sufficient.

 

[ginti]

Update on the story:

I am curious about the sharing gas drill he teaches (16:03 to 17:52). Does anyone know?

 

[Underwater Tourist]

I am curious about the sharing gas drill he teaches (16:03 to 17:52). Does anyone know?

Basically, always put out of gas diver (or pretty much anyone who had an emergency) behind you so in the event they relapse into panic, they are not between you and the exit from the cave.

And it makes perfect sense imo and I hope more instructors start teaching this way

 

[lermontov]

Grim

 

[ginti]

Basically, always put out of gas diver (or pretty much anyone who had an emergency) behind you so in the event they relapse into panic, they are not between you and the exit from the cave.

That part I understood; but he was also mentioning something about the primary donation - that in class works, but in real life not really... Does he also have a modified version?

And it makes perfect sense imo and I hope more instructors start teaching this way

IMHO, it really depends on the situation (the diver/s, the cave, the reason why gas is shared, etc.)

 

[boulderjohn]

I am curious about the sharing gas drill he teaches (16:03 to 17:52). Does anyone know?

That part I understood; but he was also mentioning something about the primary donation - that in class works, but in real life not really... Does he also have a modified version?

I took cave DPV from him, and his message about air shares was much the same. as in the video. I can only tell you what I was taught on a scooter. It is hard to describe. You head toward the diver assuming the diver will attack you. As you get to him, you do a maneuver that includes pushing the diver away as you donate.

He told a story about a class in which he had instructed students not to take their regulators out if he signaled that they were OOA, but the student fully discarded the regulator while signaling OOA, and by the time the donor got there, he was in full blown panic attack mode.

 

[lostsheep]

Right hand donates the reg keeping it between your face and the oog diver’s face, left hand is ready to fight.

 

[Vicko]

The idea of primary donate is that the panicked oog diver will go after the first reg he sees and take it. The reality is that he will take the reg and grab onto you for dear life which may restrict your mobility or cover the reg around your neck making it unreachable.

Last time I donated a reg to a panicked diver I had to hold my breath for 30-45 seconds until the idiot calmed down enough for me to take my secondary. If I was not a free diver I would have either died or killed the victim.

 

[billgraham]

I took cave DPV from him, and his message about air shares was much the same. as in the video. I can only tell you what I was taught on a scooter. It is hard to describe. You head toward the diver assuming the diver will attack you. As you get to him, you do a maneuver that includes pushing the diver away as you donate.

He told a story about a class in which he had instructed students not to take their regulators out if he signaled that they were OOA, but the student fully discarded the regulator while signaling OOA, and by the time the donor got there, he was in full blown panic attack mode.

I asked Edd about this, and essentially you are putting the reg in the diver's face so that's all they see, and simultaneously controlling their upper arm with your other hand. The idea is that what they really want is the regulator, but if they are in fight mode and continue to go for the one in your mouth, you can turn them away from you. You don't want to do anything aggressive because they are already in survival mode. If you know about ocean rescue of a panicked swimmer, it's something similar, you go underwater and turn them around if they try to climb on your head.

 

[steinbil]

I asked Edd about this, and essentially you are putting the reg in the divers face so that's all they see, and simultaneously controlling their upper arm with your other hand. The idea is that what they really want is the regulator, but if they are in fight mode and continue to go for the one in your mouth, you can turn them away from you. You don't want to do anything aggressive because they are already in survival mode. If you know about ocean rescue of a panicked swimmer, it's something similar, you go underwater and turn them around if they try to climb on your head.

That doesn't sound wildly different from what I was taught in GUE fundies. I was told to present the reg calmly right in front of the OOG diver, easy to see and grab, and to grab their elbow/arm to reassure them and as GI3 said in the DIR tapes "take control of the situation". Obviously no aggressive moves, and there wasn't much emphasis on defending/turning them around, but to stabilize and make sure the OOG diver is ok and calm.