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I own 3 Blacktips. They were an easy and affordable way for my wife and I to get into DPVs. We have upgraded ours to third-party 20ah batteries for better runtime. We keep a third one as a tow scooter or loan it out to friends. They are fine for 4000-5000ft cave dives (with upgraded batteries..) or tooling around wrecks and shore dives.
I owned a UV-18 many years ago briefly but rarely used it due to the weight (boat diving). The Blacktips have better performance than some old school tech scooters like UV-18/26, Gavins, or beefed up Makos.
However I'll be completely honest we have both outgrown the Blacktips. The 20ah batteries help and they have decent range but I do not believe the Blacktips to be very reliable scooters and Dive Extras quality control is pretty awful. Their customer service is so-so.
I still believe there is nothing comparable on the market in this price range but honestly I feel like we have all been unwilling beta testers for this platform.
Bad wiring/crimping for factory, numerous nose cone redesigns, handle redesign, poor quality potting and overheating ESCs, multiple firmware updates to address issues.
It seems they have mostly worked out the kinks now but these scooters do still overheat at higher gears after an extended period on the trigger. Most people will not notice this unless you're cave diving in high flow or racing someone with a better scooter.
Having said all that, the Blacktips is very DIY friendly. Most parts are easy to replace yourself if you are slightly mechanically minded. Dive Extras releases a full technical schematic and will sell you most parts. I give them a lot of credit for that.
They are not a bad scooter but if you have the money I would go with another brand.
I'll probably be upgrading to Seacraft or Genesis in the spring as I want something with external charging and no shaft seal.
I owned a UV-18 many years ago briefly but rarely used it due to the weight (boat diving). The Blacktips have better performance than some old school tech scooters like UV-18/26, Gavins, or beefed up Makos.
However I'll be completely honest we have both outgrown the Blacktips. The 20ah batteries help and they have decent range but I do not believe the Blacktips to be very reliable scooters and Dive Extras quality control is pretty awful. Their customer service is so-so.
I still believe there is nothing comparable on the market in this price range but honestly I feel like we have all been unwilling beta testers for this platform.
Bad wiring/crimping for factory, numerous nose cone redesigns, handle redesign, poor quality potting and overheating ESCs, multiple firmware updates to address issues.
It seems they have mostly worked out the kinks now but these scooters do still overheat at higher gears after an extended period on the trigger. Most people will not notice this unless you're cave diving in high flow or racing someone with a better scooter.
Having said all that, the Blacktips is very DIY friendly. Most parts are easy to replace yourself if you are slightly mechanically minded. Dive Extras releases a full technical schematic and will sell you most parts. I give them a lot of credit for that.
They are not a bad scooter but if you have the money I would go with another brand.
I'll probably be upgrading to Seacraft or Genesis in the spring as I want something with external charging and no shaft seal.
I am in the same boat - need to get into DPVs, mostly for cave diving. I don't see my dive plans exceeding 5000ft penetration in the next year or so. Hence the question: How easy is it to upgrade BT if you're mechanically inclined?
Looking at various sites, I can get a new motor, upgraded battery packs, and some accessories. What would it take to create Genesis-like battery packs where I can replace individual cells? Will aftermarket upgrades and regular maintenance reduce common failure probability? Can I get a new, non plastic cone?
Also, what's the story with Piranha P1? Is it a DIY-friendly platform? Based on what I know, later P1 versions seem to be better than BT in terms of quality/performance and will also be sufficient for my dives. However, the platform longevity is my concern. Where would one get a new engine, non-PTB battery packs?
@lostsheep - do you have a list of modifications you've done to you Piranha? I am interested in the updated cone and the battery. What would you do if the motor fails? Is it something that one could repair or send out for repairs?
All the upgrades people do on their blacktips can't address the big flaw... The hull and the multiple Oring penetrations. You really don't want to put $2500 worth of super high end 18650s and a Genesis warp core like system into an inherently dubiously watertight $1500 scooter. Just get a better scooter in the first place. A used Sierra is actually a great starter scooter if you're handy.
Boarderguy
Chief Narctopus Wrangler
Run the BT until fails and you can't fix it inexpensively. Meanwhile save up for a genesis level DPV if that's your end game. A $2k scoot will do a lot and be a good midway point to see if that's really what you want to do. The o-rings and plastic hull are a potential point of failure, but it's a $2k scooter with $300 batteries (for a pair of 9Ah). You can build a larger battery for abut the same $ or buy one for $700 ish. The through hull prop shaft is the other problem that can't be modify cheap. Again, this is an entry level scooter that is built for diving (unlike those <$1k Yamaha trash scooters) and will do most of what you want without breaking the bank.
FWIW my buddy dropped his travel from shoulder height and cracked the tube. We didn't see the very small (imperceptible) crack under the carry handle strap and he put it in salt water for a dive. It started smoking under water (really cool to see). He sent it back to DiveX and they got him a new tube and remanufactured scooter for $550. Dewalt sent him 2 brand new batteries since they were toast as well (male sure to register them) and they didn't want the old ones back.
FWIW my buddy dropped his travel from shoulder height and cracked the tube. We didn't see the very small (imperceptible) crack under the carry handle strap and he put it in salt water for a dive. It started smoking under water (really cool to see). He sent it back to DiveX and they got him a new tube and remanufactured scooter for $550. Dewalt sent him 2 brand new batteries since they were toast as well (male sure to register them) and they didn't want the old ones back.
I don't know of any Genesis warp-core type batteries available for the Blacktip unless you DIY'd your own. There are 3-4 people/companies selling third-party 15-20ah batteries for the Blacktip. Most are drop-in replacements.
Basically factor in $2100 for the Blacktip and another $750-1100 for a larger 20Ah battery. If you want a 3d-printed T handle then it's maybe another $125? If you are a DIY-type person with electronics you could easily build your own battery but unless you are experienced with spot welding batteries and lithium battery design it is going to be MUCH safer to buy a third-party battery from someone already making them.
So you're already at $3325usd. There aren't really any aftermarket upgrades that will reduce common failures. Well I guess that's not completely true. You can buy their vacuum bulkhead for $500. Now you're at ~$3825. My opinion is there is still nothing in this price range that compares.
The tube is still PVC. You want to carefully make sure you don't scratch or dent any of the sealing surfaces. The nose cone design is still poor; It tends to warp overtime. The trigger design still not ideal but it works just fine.
The "$1500 scooter" (their original retail price) is now closer to $4000. It still has an overheating ESC, glitchy firmware and ****** customer service. Take all this with grain of salt.
Regarding the P1, my personal opinion is I would not trust it in a cave. I'm sure someone is going to vehemently disagree with me here though. They are definitely more reliable, faster/more thrust than the Blacktip but a P1 does not have enough battery reserve for 5000ft cave dives. You'd need a P2 which opens more failure points and more battery modules.
Personally I loved the Piranha platform. They are awesome boat scooters because of their size but because they are belt driven they are very noisy. I've known many people who have had belt failures. It is rare but it happens. It is also not a failure mode I would want in a cave. The Piranha is also a dead platform. Dive Xtras is not supporting it or manufacturing them anymore although some parts are still available. I wish they still made the P1. It's the perfect boat scooter.
My humble advice is look at better scooter. Unfortunately that means spending more money or finding a good deal on a used scooter. I'm saying that as a personal that owns 3 Blacktips. Even with 20Ah batteries and various mods I have outgrown them and do not trust their reliability but I still own them hence I am still using them.
Piranhas are every bit as good as a Cuda or Sierra with a replacement front end 
scubaboard.com
FWIW, I’ve been entertaining the idea of a RevB housing and I might be convinced to run extras
Piranha Housing and Battery swap
Starting my own thread here so as to not derail others. I appreciate any and all questions, comments, and concerns about what I'm doing here. I got a piranha a couple of years ago with the original battery, and it's starting to show it's age. According to my "Watts up" charger monitor the...
FWIW, I’ve been entertaining the idea of a RevB housing and I might be convinced to run extras
For the reason of all the good things that you said, I still think the BlackTip is a great first scooter.
The investment is small (in DPV $$$ terms).
The BT is very capable. For people just doing wreck and reef diving, they may never "outgrow" a BlackTip. Especially a BT with a 20Ah battery pack. It goes plenty deep. and you don't generally need really long run-time on a wreck dive. But, if you are diving a CCR on reef dives, yeah, you might eventually, maybe, get to the point of wanting longer runtime (though, a 3 hour reef dive is a pretty long dive, and are you really going to be on the trigger the whole time? So maybe you could really do 4 or more hours?)
For when you first start out cave diving with a DPV, do you really need more run time than a BT w/custom battery gives? I mean, with just 2 x Dewalt 12s, it has a 3 mile range. That means 5280' of penetration, 5280 out, and the same left in reserve. Does someone new to cave DPV really need more than that?
And with a 20Ah pack, your Third is even further penetration.
It seems to me like a BT is great for a first cave DPV. And when you are ready to do more penetration than that, then the BT becomes a good tow scooter to have when you buy your Genesis (or whatever). I think very few cave divers ever go far enough in that a BT (used as a backup/tow scooter) would not be able to get them back out. Some do, but VERY few.
ANY scooter could break, so you always have to plan your dive to accommodate a DPV that dies. That's true whether you're using a BT or a Genesis.
So, when your DPV does die in a cave, well, it's an inconvenience, right? Not an emergency.
Which suggests to me that, unless a BlackTip is something that is going to die often, then it's probably reliable enough for the range it offers. Yeah? And, while I don't like the reliability of any PTB-based scooter, I don't think the BT is so unreliable that it isn't suitable for cave DPV dives in its range.
Now, I could be all wrong. I am trained for cave diving, but not cave DPV use, yet. So, maybe I'm just wrong.
This all seems a lot like what I tell people about lights. You don't need a big canister light as your first light. Good a good cordless. When you get to the point of needing a big can light, then that cordless light will be a great backup, which you will need to have anyway.
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