DPV Price vs performance

[Whitrzac]

The blacktip is perfectly fine unless you dive with people not using blacktips. Then you get left behind....

Start with the blacktip, once you find the limitations of it, you'll be ready for a better DPV. Then the blacktip makes an excellent backup/tow scooter.

 

[lostsheep]

The BlackTip is kinda like a DGX 700 light. Or a 3mm shorty wetsuit. Or a base model Toyota Corolla.

But, the former may not meet your needs...

Don’t be saying unkind words about my dgx lights or Toyota . My dgx lights have taken a lot of abuse and just keep on going , same with my Toyota (tacoma) lol.

The blacktip is perfectly fine unless you dive with people not using blacktips. Then you get left behind....

Start with the blacktip, once you find the limitations of it, you'll be ready for a better DPV. Then the blacktip makes an excellent backup/tow scooter.

^^^couldn't agree with that more.

FWIW, I have a piranha , 1.5 Cudas, a Sierra , and I just sold my blacktip. My buddies dive (4) genesis scooters, and a seacraft. The blacktip is an excellent entry scooter but you will likely outgrow it.

I can’t drop $10K on a scooter but I can watch classifieds and I’m a machinist. If you’re mechanically inclined, retrofitting older scooters is a decent way to get to a respectable scooter for a lot less than the price of a new one. YMMV …literally

 

[lostsheep]

I have a BT tech with 9ah batteries. I've put x3 45 min dives on a set of batteries and they went from 3 bars to 2 bars at the end of the 3rd dive. Drysuit diving with lots of drag and noticeable current. I'm on the trigger at speed 3-4 most of the time. That setup cost me about $2400 total.

A genesis is what, $8-10k?... for non penetration OW dives I don't really see the need unless you have enough $ to not care.

Be careful trusting the “charge” meters on the dewalt batteries. I reserve the right to be wrong but I believe they are simple volt guages; li ion batteries do not discharge linearly.

 

[Boarderguy]

Be careful trusting the “charge” meters on the dewalt batteries. I reserve the right to be wrong but I believe they are simple volt guages; li ion batteries do not discharge linearly.

I'm well aware of that and the majority of my dives are from shore and single tank limitations. Anything beyond a "normal" dive for me or one with current I'll give them a fresh charge.

 

[broncobowsher]

The blacktip is perfectly fine unless you dive with people not using blacktips. Then you get left behind....

Start with the blacktip, once you find the limitations of it, you'll be ready for a better DPV. Then the blacktip makes an excellent backup/tow scooter.

Last time I had the blacktip out with a bunch of other divers, they were all on blacktips as well.

While they may be considered a gateway dru, er scooter. I've been happy with mine. At the price point it is the only way I would have even considered one. I am not demanding enough to justify going up to something 5X the cost. Someday I may find the need for a bigger one, but I am looking at the ability to travel with it being more beneficial for my future plans. The local dealer has not pushed a bigger one on me.

 

[lostsheep]

I'm well aware of that and the majority of my dives are from shore and single tank limitations. Anything beyond a "normal" dive for me or one with current I'll give them a fresh charge.

I'm not trying to preach here, just sharing what I've learned the hard way. I've seen lots of posts of divers saying how long there blacktips have gone with some claiming long run times. I've personally witnessed blacktips with "fresh" 12ah batteries die at about 1.25 hours trigger time towing a tech load. Obviously configuration drag, current, and speed are huge factors but it does happen. I've ****** up as the leader when Ive been on my Chop with SM Lp50s flying my Cuda; even on the the lowest speed my BM rebreather blacktip buddies are running speed 4 or 5 just trying to keep up with me. I get a lot of **** for SMing in OW but the low drag and the scooter runs we do partially justify the "lifestyle" choice FWIW, I dive my chop SM and BM; the difference in drag is noticeable as is the Wh used afterwards.

As always, I reserve the right to be FOS.

 

[Boarderguy]

I'm not trying to preach here, just sharing what I've learned the hard way. I've seen lots of posts of divers saying how long there blacktips have gone with some claiming long run times. I've personally witnessed blacktips with "fresh" 12ah batteries die at about 1.25 hours trigger time towing a tech load. Obviously configuration drag, current, and speed are huge factors but it does happen. I've ****** up as the leader when Ive been on my Chop with SM Lp50s flying my Cuda; even on the the lowest speed my BM rebreather blacktip buddies are running speed 4 or 5 just trying to keep up with me. I get a lot of **** for SMing in OW but the low drag and the scooter runs we do partially justify the "lifestyle" choice FWIW, I dive my chop SM and BM; the difference in drag is noticeable as is the Wh used afterwards.

As always, I reserve the right to be FOS.

Damn internet and not being able up use tone and inflection. I wasn't trying to be snooty by any means and appreciate the heads up. I'm trying to put at least 90-100 minutes on my batteries before charging them since the dewalt charger doesn't allow me to do anything but full charge. I like to run my batteries (all lithium) down below 50% before I charge them and don't charge them again until I'm about to use them. If I could get them put to a storage level like I do my reedy RC batteries that would be best.

 

[ChrisMBC]

Damn internet and not being able up use tone and inflection. I wasn't trying to be snooty by any means and appreciate the heads up. I'm trying to put at least 90-100 minutes on my batteries before charging them since the dewalt charger doesn't allow me to do anything but full charge. I like to run my batteries (all lithium) down below 50% before I charge them and don't charge them again until I'm about to use them. If I could get them put to a storage level like I do my reedy RC batteries that would be best.

If you want to get fancy with it, something I’ve done for other battery packs is set up a power-monitoring smart plug (I use the Shelly Plug S) to monitor the power draw and turn off the charger at a set interval. Since the power draw scales down with charge level, you can use that to charge to a specific voltage.

 

[cosmosaure]

FWIW, j'ai un piranha, un 1.5 Cudas, un Sierra, et je viens de vendre mon blacktip.

how do you compare the BT and the Piranha?

 

[lostsheep]

how do you compare the BT and the Piranha?

Piranha contre pointe noire ?
La seule chose que le Blacktip a à offrir, c'est qu'il est beaucoup plus silencieux que le Piranha. Mon Piranha est l'une des premières unités d'entraînement à engrenages, il est incroyablement bruyant. Cela ne me dérange pas et cela pourrait attirer les requins, ce qui est génial ; J’ai eu un super blanc qui est venu nous voir l’année dernière… mes copains pensent que c’est à cause de moi. Vous pouvez l’entendre de très loin. Je suis un type hotrod, les tuyaux bruyants ne me dérangent pas donc je ne suis pas du genre à me plaindre des moteurs bruyants.
DiveX m'a jeté sous le bus en ce qui concerne une batterie de remplacement pour mon Piranha, j'ai donc usiné un nouveau frontal et y ai mis une batterie d'environ 700 WH. Je dois divulguer que j'ai usiné un adaptateur pour utiliser les pales d'hélice les plus récentes. Le fait est que mon Piranha n’est pas exactement en stock, donc une comparaison est difficile.
Pour essayer de répondre à votre question, le pointe noire ne peut même pas suivre de loin le Piranha. Mes copains Blacktip couraient à une vitesse de 4 ou plus pour me suivre à la vitesse 1 ou 2 sur le Piranha… pendant que je remorquais un Blacktip de secours derrière moi. Le Piranha est rapide, le Blacktip moins. Je n’ai pas comparé l’utilisation du WH entre les deux mais mon Piranha n’est jamais mort lors des plongées que nous effectuons et le Blacktip oui. J’aimerais entendre les mesures d’efficacité réelles de la part des plus compétents d’ici. Peut-être que @jonasilverstein pourra intervenir ici
J'aime les Blacktips pour ce qu'ils sont mais ils ne remplacent pas un vrai scooter avec une grosse batterie et un gros moteur.


ETA in english:

Piranha vs Blacktip?

The only thing the Blacktip has / had going for it was that it is much more quiet than the Piranha. My Piranha is one of the early gear drive units, it is insanely loud. It doesn’t bother me and it just might attract sharks which is awesome; I had a great white come check us out last year…my buddies think it’s because of me. You can hear it from a LONG ways off. I’m a hotrod kinda guy, loud pipes do not bother me so I am not the one to complain about loud motors.

DiveX threw me under the bus with respect to a replacement battery for my Piranha, so I machined a new front end and put an ~700wH battery in it. I should disclose that I machined an adapter to use the newer prop blades. Point being here is that my Piranha isn’t exactly stock so a comparison is tough.

To try and answer your question, the blacktip can’t even remotely keep up with the Piranha. My Blacktip buddies would be running speed 4 or higher to keep up with me on speed 1 or 2 on the Piranha…while I was towing a backup Blacktip behind me. The Piranha is fast, the Blacktip not so much. I haven’t compared the wH usage between the two but my Piranha has never died on the dives we do and the Blacktip has. I’d like to hear actual efficiency measurements from the more knowledgeable around here. Maybe @jonasilverstein can chime in here

I like the Blacktips for what they are but they are no replacement for a real scooter with a large battery and a big motor.