Info Are Pony Bottles Dangerous?

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I never understood this sentiment. Buddy diving is a two way street. Even with terrible and non-attentive buddies, I've never gotten separated. Why? If they are not reliable, I take 100% of the responsibility to stay close to my buddy. Is that fun? No, that's why I prefer better buddies. But it would take a lot for someone to get away from me underwater, unless I'm not paying attention. So maybe the people saying this are not the most attentive themselves...


Proper gas planning is not what you think it is. It absolutely takes into account gas sharing and critical failures.
If your profile is correct, you only have a few to several dozen dives. Do hundreds more dives, with different characters in varying conditions of current, visibility and dive objectives and you will almost assuredly look up and see nobody around you. Generally you should have a good idea which way to begin to look, but still sheet happens. Have you ever had a buddy panic and bail or have an equipment problem and just leave? It will happen sooner or later.

Also, what activities are you doing during a dive? What are your goals, photography, exploring, hunting? or is it just to play follow the leader? If you are trying to capture a particular image or scene with a video or camera, your attention is necessarily focused on that subject for X amount of time. What if a diver spears a fish and so does his buddy? Do you think both people are available physically or mentally to provide assistance? Not happening. A buddy system can and does work for a lot of people, but not for everyone all the time.
 
Proper gas planning is not what you think it is. It absolutely takes into account gas sharing and critical failures.
Really for recreational diving? I think not. The planing is for one critical failure NOT two. You have a critical failure, you go to your pony and the buddy is on his own to make the ascent. If he runs out of gas or has a simultaneous, instantaneous critical failure (and he does not have redundancy himself), then you buddy breathe or die.

We don't plan for everything.
 
If someone is that freaked out about critical failures all the time and that’s all they think about the entire dive, that doesn’t sound like fun to me. I would find a new hobby.
I’ve dived with people like that whose entire lives revolved around “critical failures” and “what if’s”. They are no fun to be around.
In a cave or a deep wreck sure, but let’s not get carried away with basic recreational dives.
Just keep your gear in shape and pick brands that don’t explode.
To pony or not to pony, that is the question 🙋, sure why not? If it makes you feel better and safer go for it. They are way more reliable than a buddy, they are always there.

But to me it’s kind of like the old joke about the tourist driving along and comes to a fork in the road. He asks a local sitting on a porch if it makes any difference which road he takes. The local says “Not to me it don’t!”.
Peace ✌️
 
Really for recreational diving? I think not. The planing is for one critical failure NOT two. You have a critical failure, you go to your pony and the buddy is on his own to make the ascent. If he runs out of gas or has a simultaneous, instantaneous critical failure (and he does not have redundancy himself), then you buddy breathe or die.

We don't plan for everything.

Less than a 1% chance, that my buddy has any idea what "buddy breathing" is.

If it's practical to take a pony, I do. Airplane vacation diving, nope. An al40 is nearly a decent dive by itself. Nice to extend dives for a big guy.
 
Less than a 1% chance, that my buddy has any idea what "buddy breathing" is.

If it's practical to take a pony, I do. Airplane vacation diving, nope. An al40 is nearly a decent dive by itself. Nice to extend dives for a big guy.
Unless a dedicated buddy team practices buddy breathing all the time and they get really really good at it, it’s a false sense of security with a stranger or someone that has not practiced it.
Buddy breathing is probably one of the more dangerous things untrained and unpracticed divers can do. Two breaths turns into three turns into four, the next thing you know one of them is starting to panic getting CO2 overload, the other doesn’t want to give it back, etc. it turns into a big sh!t show.
Just stick to modern protocols -
Or a pony
 
Scubaboard is not populated by the average diver.

If you look at ANDP students doing the buddy breathing and how that goes, then you can imagine that many rec divers will be unable to buddy breathe and ascend at the same time together. Many non-tech divers just struggle to ascend together, at a similar rate, on an alternate air source.

Personally, I wish I had a pony for these Egypt family trips where I am insta buddied and going without my kit, but I don’t have one.
 
I don't even think my average buddy can switch to air2 (ick) and primary donate.

I have witnessed air hogs swim past there own buddy, and 2 other divers, to get the DM's octo. Lol.
 
"Proper" gas planning, 3rds, do take into account catastrophic failures and are used more frequently in situations where you absolutely need the buffer (caves, wrecks, very deep, etc). The average rec diver is using a turn pressure of about 1/2 with a plan to return in the 500-750 range. A critical failure (incident if you had a pony) is now an emergency. Dark, cold, snowy waters and your 6ft of separation is enough to cause problems. Having a redundant air source gives you time to address most problems while you either 1) get to your buddy and begin sharing back gas or 2) signal and surface while not being tethered to your buddy
In my opinion, there's nothing magical about any fraction. Proper gas planning will depend on the circumstances, and just diving 3rds is not it. There are probably many valid ways of doing it, but it should account for gas sharing in an emergency from the deepest/furthest point in the dive. Call it "rock bottom" or "usable gas" or whatever, the point is to have an appropriate gas reserve for the dive. The rest of the gas you can use as you see fit. If you "must return to the starting point at all costs" then you need to at least dive 3rds on top of the reserve and take into account that your buddy might need more air than you, is there current, other obstacles etc.

As you describe it, the average Rec diver is not using proper gas planning. I think they should. Let's leave it at that.

I agree that having redundancy is an advantage on more advanced/deeper dives. I just think for a lot of rec divers "just adding a pony" might not make them any safer, and for some it might even contribute to giving them a false sense of security or pushing their limits instead of taking steps to learn to be a better/safer diver. This is obviously not true for everyone that uses a pony, but I do think it happens.

When I dive I'm not going to babysit a shịtty partner unless they're my family. I dive so I can go see what I want. I'm often on a scooter and now that I have my own it will be even more so. We're all down there to float and be away from people.
Fair enough, then you're solo diving. Do as you wish. My point is that if you have that mentality, it's quite ironic to complain about buddies not being reliable and that it's easy to get separated. (Not that you did, but I hear that sentiment from a lot of posters that seem to blame others for their lack of buddy communication skills).

If your profile is correct, you only have a few to several dozen dives. Do hundreds more dives, with different characters in varying conditions of current, visibility and dive objectives and you will almost assuredly look up and see nobody around you. Generally you should have a good idea which way to begin to look, but still sheet happens. Have you ever had a buddy panic and bail or have an equipment problem and just leave? It will happen sooner or later.
Agreed, I'm still quite inexperienced, and maybe my perspective will shift as I gain more experience. However, after 90+ dives in cold black/green water with visibility ranging 2-30ft and tidal currents, I still think it would take a lot to get separated from me. Mostly because if I don't trust my buddy, I don't let them out of my sight. I've had a few people pop to the surface towards the end of the dive or during ascent, but I was aware that it happened and found them on the surface. Now, I did have an instructor sneak up behind me while I was focused on my team mate doing drills, so of course it is possible to lose track of someone if they deliberately try to lose you - especially if you trust them and they're not really your team mate.

By the way, I appreciate you sharing your story and also the way you responded to my question. It was not meant as a dig towards you.

Also, what activities are you doing during a dive? What are your goals, photography, exploring, hunting? or is it just to play follow the leader? If you are trying to capture a particular image or scene with a video or camera, your attention is necessarily focused on that subject for X amount of time. What if a diver spears a fish and so does his buddy? Do you think both people are available physically or mentally to provide assistance? Not happening. A buddy system can and does work for a lot of people, but not for everyone all the time.
I don't spearfish or do photography. If I did, I would only do it with buddies I know I can trust and that are part of a team with shared goals. Outside of that, it gets very close to solo diving, as I see it.

Really for recreational diving? I think not. The planing is for one critical failure NOT two. You have a critical failure, you go to your pony and the buddy is on his own to make the ascent. If he runs out of gas or has a simultaneous, instantaneous critical failure (and he does not have redundancy himself), then you buddy breathe or die.

We don't plan for everything.
In case my wording was unclear, I agree you normally only plan for 1 critical failure. My point was that I think proper gas planning should account for 1 diver to have a complete loss of gas - so my reserve should be enough to share gas with my buddy in case he has a catastrophic failure. I don't also plan for what to do if I also have a catastrophic failure - that is one step too far, I think.
 

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