Zero to Master Scuba Diver in 10 months

[Storker]

You've dove more demanding conditions and more complex gear (dry suit), but there's the matter of the 2 types being different, not just easy vs. hard.

There's also the difference in diving practice between warm and cold water regions.

While I probably wouldn't harbor prejudices against a warm water diver with 200 dives (to get 200 dives in a fairly short time, you have to be a bit dedicated), I'd probably be a bit more wary about a warm water diver with less than 50-100 dives than about a cold water diver with the same amount of dives. IME, warm water diving may well be done as a tourist, with a DM holding your hand and providing the competence needed to conduct the dive safely. cold water diving destinations just don't allow for that. Statistically, there's a bigger chance that a cold water diver has had to plan and conduct their dives themselves (in cooperation with their buddy, of course) than that a warm water diver with a limited amount of dives has done the same.

So personally, I'd rather buddy up with a cold water diver with 50 logged dives than a warm water diver with the same amount of logged dives. Because I believe that there's a higher probability that the cold water diver will be a competent diver able to plan and conduct their dives without hand-holding. But it's just a question about probabilities, not about the abilities of the individual diver.

 

[tridacna]

I did my first dive in 1974. Dove until 1980 before getting an OW card from NAUI. (Under pressure from my old and crusty pater). Do not have any idea how many dives I have nor do I care. I do prefer diving than playing the trumpet though. Stuartv seems to have acquired a keen mastery of that too.

 

[scubadada]

There's also the difference in diving practice between warm and cold water regions.

While I probably wouldn't harbor prejudices against a warm water diver with 200 dives (to get 200 dives in a fairly short time, you have to be a bit dedicated), I'd probably be a bit more wary about a warm water diver with less than 50-100 dives than about a cold water diver with the same amount of dives. IME, warm water diving may well be done as a tourist, with a DM holding your hand and providing the competence needed to conduct the dive safely. cold water diving destinations just don't allow for that. Statistically, there's a bigger chance that a cold water diver has had to plan and conduct their dives themselves (in cooperation with their buddy, of course) than that a warm water diver with a limited amount of dives has done the same.

So personally, I'd rather buddy up with a cold water diver with 50 logged dives than a warm water diver with the same amount of logged dives. Because I believe that there's a higher probability that the cold water diver will be a competent diver able to plan and conduct their dives without hand-holding. But it's just a question about probabilities, not about the abilities of the individual diver.

If I'm diving with a buddy, I'd like it to be a diver familiar and experienced with the conditions we are diving. This applies to water temperature, depth, current, visibility (including night), navigational challenges...

 

[Storker]

If I'm diving with a buddy, I'd like it to be a diver familiar and experienced with the conditions we are diving.

On the one hand, I agree. On the other, there's the weighing of "experienced with the conditions" against proven buddy skills. Gripping hand, I'd usually prefer buddying up with my son, with whom I've done more than half my dives (we can almost read each other thoughts underwater and I trust him more than many of my clubmates), than a random instabuddy who has dived the place a dozen times. If conditions are outside our comfort zone, I'll either buddy up with a proven good buddy with local experience, or call the dive.

 

[scubadada]

On the one hand, I agree. On the other, there's the weighing of "experienced with the conditions" against proven buddy skills. Gripping hand, I'd usually prefer buddying up with my son, with whom I've done more than half my dives (we can almost read each other thoughts underwater and I trust him more than many of my clubmates), than a random instabuddy who has dived the place a dozen times. If conditions are outside our comfort zone, I'll either buddy up with a proven good buddy with local experience, or call the dive.

I mostly dive solo. My favorite buddies are my wife, son, and daughter. My best buddy, under a wide variety of conditions, is also, my son. I know where he is, without even looking.

 

[NAM001]

Stu

Dont ever pass us old timers off as out of date. There is a reason many of our generation feel the way we do about zero to hero. Here is an example. I mentored a diver that at 60 dives got his dive master. he did all his dives in one lake with exception of perhaps 5 which were in a class and one div at a place of my choosing. He owned little of his own gear and had little experience but had book knowledge that he had no background in. The classes were taken in a college setting where every course was 25 or 35 dollars. The sate paid the remainder of the costs. no experience no personal gear. no dives below 40 ft except the one for AOW and 2 I took him on, one being a night dive in lake travis. His costs ow aow nitrox rescue a couple others and dm class perhaps 250.00 and he is a dm. Never seen salt water, never seen current, never touched a banicle or got a sting, never implemented any first aid in non class environment, never filled a tank blended a nitrox mix. relies on me to lead the dives. had a .7-.8 SAC and he was perhaps 125# and 5-10. There is a lot of this around. the whys and hows are for another thread but it is true. Many experienced divers are leery of 0-hero divers. You want to read about 0-hero go to the cave threads. I read some of your posts and my attention was drawn to the many dives you have done in the many locations and conditions. In my opinion you have had a great amount of exposure variety. More than most divers get in years. I first got certed in 68 or so and the class was IMO the same as OW through rescue or the same as a master course/ 0-master. It was 40 hours or more + lake dive time. I had never been in salt water. I put diving aside for the navy and started up again in 2003 and have done a fair amount of classes since then. You can look at my profile. All i lacked for my master was a current reacue and cpr/first aid. got it and the card was sent. I considered my self of a different mantality n that i had 20 years of submarine time in the navy. Many of the skills for diving are used in subs. partial pressures of gas is second nature to me. One thing i have found is that those with training are useless unless, they are willing to step up when it is time to use that training. Valuable things i have learned in my years are setting and respecting limits for my self. If you cant keep your self out of trouble then you cant keep others out of trouble. Higher certifications carry responsibilities and obligations along with assumed skills and leadership. These areas are the aspects that are normally lacking in the 0-hero training. Are their exceptions. Of course. How do you guarantee a qualified diver, well that's another thread also. I will say that although i have a master i never have used anything beyond the AOW and nitrox cards for open water except in one case where the operators wanted to review books for aow divers i flashed the master and they said i was good to go. There is a lot of knowledge wealth in us relics. Perhaps bottom line.....would i dive with you and feel safe with you. YES Would you most likely learn a few things at minimum from me. YES.

But, a Master's degree is usually significantly less time than is required to get the Bachelor's. In contrast, the scuba "Bachelor's" takes a weekend and 4 dives. The scuba "Master's" is 5 full specialties and 50 dives. So, if you want to use the university analogy, I think the Master Scuba Diver more than exceeds what one should expect based on the preceding requirements.

Personally, besides being happy to achieve the milestone, I am happy to have the actual card. It makes me feel like I can sign up for any recreational dive opportunity that ever comes along and satisfy 99% of dive operators that I am qualified to go on their charter without further ado.

As for old crustaceans who take it as a personal affront that someone with 50 dives would have a card that says they are a Master Scuba Diver, well, I have no sympathy or patience for people with that kind of attitude. I got my first motorcycle roadracing license in 1990. I qualified for my Expert license in 1993. I have won several regional championships. When I meet a new racer, or even a racer with a freshly minted Expert card, I see no reason to feel insulted by that. It is what it is. Does the new "Expert" have as much skill or experience as I do? No effing way. Are they truly an actual expert? No effing way. Is it an insult to me that they and I are both labeled "Expert"? No effing way. Scuba diving is not a competition (well, to me, anyway) and I can't see any reason for anyone's nose to get out of a joint over words on a C card (unless the person didn't actually fulfill the requirements to get it).

Maybe I'll ask my local shop to print me up a card that says "Jacques Cousteau Reincarnated". LOL There was a time when Jacques only had 50 dives, right?

---------- Post added October 16th, 2015 at 04:36 AM ----------

Avery valid point about fluff courses,

In the end, as it has been said many times, I think it comes down to the instructor. My Wreck course was WAY harder than anything we did in the OW class. And, MSD requires Rescue (at least, for PADI and SDI). I suppose you could take 4 total fluff specialties for the other requirements, but there's no getting around Rescue and I thought it was also way more challenging than OW. I suppose a PADI or SDI OW course COULD be harder than getting the 4 specialties plus Rescue plus 50 dives that are required for MSD, but it is hard for me, with my limited experience, to imagine. I'd say that people who drop out of OW would not have a prayer of completing MSD in anywhere close to 50 dives.

 

[stuartv]

Stu

Dont ever pass us old timers off as out of date.

KWS,

I apologize if I seemed to be sloughing off all old timers. Not at all. I'd much rather dive with people like yourself than anyone else. It's SOME old timers who act like someone came to their house first thing in the morning and peed in their Wheaties at the notion that a person with 50 dives has a card that says they are a "Master Scuba Diver". It is that particular attitude that I don't care for.

I'm not the one that made up the name to put on the card. Actually, I presume that it was a bunch of "old timers" who did that. Don't be pissed at me for doing the work and getting the card. In fact, if/when it comes up for some reason, I don't tell people that I AM a Master Scuba Diver. I say that I have a Master Scuba Diver certification.

 

[boulderjohn]

Different people take different paths to their learning. Going through the courses that get you the MSD rating in short order is one of them. As was pointed out earlier, a few decades ago, when the old timers were young, that was pretty much the only route through formal training, so the name made a lot of sense. Some of them can get it done in around 50 dives, but that would be pretty rare.

Today, there are many more options available for people to have training, and people can get excellent experience and training without getting the MSD card that was once the pinnacle of non-professional training. Heck, I don't qualify for it yet, so I am sure not going to knock it.

 

[Dhboner]

KWS,

I apologize if I seemed to be sloughing off all old timers. Not at all. I'd much rather dive with people like yourself than anyone else. It's SOME old timers who act like someone came to their house first thing in the morning and peed in their Wheaties at the notion that a person with 50 dives has a card that says they are a "Master Scuba Diver". It is that particular attitude that I don't care for.

I'm not the one that made up the name to put on the card. Actually, I presume that it was a bunch of "old timers" who did that. Don't be pissed at me for doing the work and getting the card. In fact, if/when it comes up for some reason, I don't tell people that I AM a Master Scuba Diver. I say that I have a Master Scuba Diver certification.

Actually according to the title of your thread.....

 

[tridacna]

Would someone please define "old-timer". I'm 56 and started diving when I was 16. Wait, that's another thread...