Zero to Master Scuba Diver in 10 months
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It's kind of funny, but one of the posters in this thread came to me for a 0-hero class. He didn't pass. LOL.
No, I won't say who it is. He can chime in if he wants to.
Boulderjohn is right. People learn from different styles of teaching and certainly at different paces. Most of the time, I'd say that a person cannot pass my Cavern class with 30-40 dives under their belts. But, every once in a while, there's a guy who comes to me with almost no dives who just gets it. His skill in the water makes him look like he's been diving for decades. Some people are just naturals. Then there are people who have been diving for 20 years that, frankly, probably couldn't pass any of my classes. They look like hammered poo, and I question how they've lived this long.
Everyone knows my passion is cave diving, and because of that passion, I'll use it in my next example.
A few years ago, one of the posters to this board contacted me about doing a zero to hero class for Full Cave. He explained that he had been diving for longer than I had been alive and that he really didn't need cave training, but was doing it just to appease his girlfriend. He even asked if he could skip the first two classes (cavern and Intro) because he was certain there was nothing to be learned by him in those classes. I gave a response that I've sometimes given to people like this: If at the end of the class, you don't feel the instruction was necessary, I'll give you your money back.
During the first day of cavern class, in simulated dives, he unwittingly killed himself 3 times. Granted, his skills in the water were decent. He easily controlled his place in the water column. His propulsion was spot on. He was a good open water diver. But that does not prepare you for everything.
As the days progressed, so did his knowledge of the new environment he was immersed in. However, day after day, he continued to kill himself in our simulations. He was unable to find the lost line. He chose the wrong direction for his exit. He couldn't preform a simple OOA emergency with his buddy in zero vis without issue, etc. etc.
At the end of our time together (oh by the way, he didn't pass) I asked him if he still thought Cavern and Intro to cave were a waste of time and money. He responded with the same answer I've always gotten and I got the keep the cost of tuition. The point is this: You really don't know what to expect in diving, until you are faced with it at least once. And frankly, that doesn't happen until you have a lot of dives.
And this isn't an issue just with new divers. Let's take it a step further...
A couple of years ago, a PADI instructor came to me and over the course of two years became a Full Cave Diver. He was a very good diver up north, doing cold water dives and pretty awesome wreck dives. He had a lot of time in the water and was one of my best students. All in all, coming to see me once a year on vacation, he probably had 25 cave dives under his belt. He finished his Full Cave training with me on a Monday. On saturday the following week he was teaching a cavern class to a student under his newly issued Padi Cavern Instructor credentials. At 25 dives in a cave or cavern, have you encountered even 5% of anything that can go wrong with a cavern student? Of course not. It takes time to advance. Honestly, you can't know how to overcome some problems, if you don't even know those problems could exist. And that doesn't happen until you've experienced it, or at least been told about it. And you simply can't know it all spending two weeks underwater.
Go slow. It's not a sprint. It's a marathon. It's not the finish line that brings the prize, but the journey to the finish line that is the prize.
No, I won't say who it is. He can chime in if he wants to.
Boulderjohn is right. People learn from different styles of teaching and certainly at different paces. Most of the time, I'd say that a person cannot pass my Cavern class with 30-40 dives under their belts. But, every once in a while, there's a guy who comes to me with almost no dives who just gets it. His skill in the water makes him look like he's been diving for decades. Some people are just naturals. Then there are people who have been diving for 20 years that, frankly, probably couldn't pass any of my classes. They look like hammered poo, and I question how they've lived this long.
Everyone knows my passion is cave diving, and because of that passion, I'll use it in my next example.
A few years ago, one of the posters to this board contacted me about doing a zero to hero class for Full Cave. He explained that he had been diving for longer than I had been alive and that he really didn't need cave training, but was doing it just to appease his girlfriend. He even asked if he could skip the first two classes (cavern and Intro) because he was certain there was nothing to be learned by him in those classes. I gave a response that I've sometimes given to people like this: If at the end of the class, you don't feel the instruction was necessary, I'll give you your money back.
During the first day of cavern class, in simulated dives, he unwittingly killed himself 3 times. Granted, his skills in the water were decent. He easily controlled his place in the water column. His propulsion was spot on. He was a good open water diver. But that does not prepare you for everything.
As the days progressed, so did his knowledge of the new environment he was immersed in. However, day after day, he continued to kill himself in our simulations. He was unable to find the lost line. He chose the wrong direction for his exit. He couldn't preform a simple OOA emergency with his buddy in zero vis without issue, etc. etc.
At the end of our time together (oh by the way, he didn't pass) I asked him if he still thought Cavern and Intro to cave were a waste of time and money. He responded with the same answer I've always gotten and I got the keep the cost of tuition. The point is this: You really don't know what to expect in diving, until you are faced with it at least once. And frankly, that doesn't happen until you have a lot of dives.
And this isn't an issue just with new divers. Let's take it a step further...
A couple of years ago, a PADI instructor came to me and over the course of two years became a Full Cave Diver. He was a very good diver up north, doing cold water dives and pretty awesome wreck dives. He had a lot of time in the water and was one of my best students. All in all, coming to see me once a year on vacation, he probably had 25 cave dives under his belt. He finished his Full Cave training with me on a Monday. On saturday the following week he was teaching a cavern class to a student under his newly issued Padi Cavern Instructor credentials. At 25 dives in a cave or cavern, have you encountered even 5% of anything that can go wrong with a cavern student? Of course not. It takes time to advance. Honestly, you can't know how to overcome some problems, if you don't even know those problems could exist. And that doesn't happen until you've experienced it, or at least been told about it. And you simply can't know it all spending two weeks underwater.
Go slow. It's not a sprint. It's a marathon. It's not the finish line that brings the prize, but the journey to the finish line that is the prize.
Ahh the good old stereotypes....
I agree on the vacation diver part..but..
To to say a cold water at 50 - 100 dive will have more experience is tosh. There's a lot of cold water divers, who do the majority of dives in quarries. Nice platforms at depth to practice skills, and a few sunken cars etc to look at. No currents, no real need of navigation and the like. Cold, yes, poor vis yes but hardly challenging.
come dive in my warm water back yard, it'll scare the crap out of you. Up currents, down current, mid water currents which can make you go backwards on a scooter at max.
to give an example, recently our boat (dhow for 20 divers over 3 nights) came across another heading the same way. This one was full of UK BSAC divers. All very skilled and used to cold water, poor vis, currents and surface chop. Except they weren't prepared for the Mussandam - they had to turn back from the more challenging sites and it wasn't even springs. These guys and girls were experienced, all very qualified lots of instructors etc.
Now i couldnt dive their backyard and wouldn't claim to, but this misconception of cold water diving being harder than warm is rubbish.
Number of of dives can be misleading too. The only gauge of someone is the wealth of experience in different conditions.
If I were in your neck of the woods, I'd be a fish out of water, almost a newbie, and would need to be buddies with someone experienced. The same here. I with just Aow (nearly rescue) guide instructors for their first few trips with us. Sometimes local knowledge trumps qual cards
Okay Dubai...
I agree with you. I'll give you another great example.
I'm going to pick on one of my best friends.
Last year a buddy of mine from the great lakes area wanted to do some dives in Key Largo. So we rented a boat and headed to one of the most popular dived sites in North America, the Spiegelgrove.
Now, to put this into perspective. This guy is a Full Cave, DPV, Trimix, CCR, diver with thousands of dives. He's dove the deep wrecks in the great lakes in 30 degree water, and has been with me to 300' deep, 5000' back at Indian. By most accounts he's a very good diver.
So, we get suited up. I throw my Minnus 1.5 into the water and jump in. The current is pretty strong, but the minnus is able to just barely make headway. Of course, this is a weekend, so there are a few other boats moored to the wreck. I'm in the water for a few minutes before my buddy jumps in. When he jumps in, I scooter down to about 30' to get out of the waves and wait.... and wait.... and wait..... and wait....... Finally, I come back to the surface, motor my scooter around to the back of the boat and see my buddy getting undressed. I ask, "dude, what happened, did the rebreather crap out on you?" He responds with, "no the current is too strong, it's not safe".
Now, I'm not the type to pick on a guy who feels the need to call the dive. You can call a dive for any reason, and I'll always support that. But, I will point out the fact, that the other two tourist boats moored near us had their AoW divers with their single Aluminum 80's making dives, despite the 2' seas and unsafe conditions. LOL Bwuauahahahahaha. So, to reiterate Dubai's point... those cold water divers got nothing on us.
I agree with you. I'll give you another great example.
I'm going to pick on one of my best friends.
Last year a buddy of mine from the great lakes area wanted to do some dives in Key Largo. So we rented a boat and headed to one of the most popular dived sites in North America, the Spiegelgrove.
Now, to put this into perspective. This guy is a Full Cave, DPV, Trimix, CCR, diver with thousands of dives. He's dove the deep wrecks in the great lakes in 30 degree water, and has been with me to 300' deep, 5000' back at Indian. By most accounts he's a very good diver.
So, we get suited up. I throw my Minnus 1.5 into the water and jump in. The current is pretty strong, but the minnus is able to just barely make headway. Of course, this is a weekend, so there are a few other boats moored to the wreck. I'm in the water for a few minutes before my buddy jumps in. When he jumps in, I scooter down to about 30' to get out of the waves and wait.... and wait.... and wait..... and wait....... Finally, I come back to the surface, motor my scooter around to the back of the boat and see my buddy getting undressed. I ask, "dude, what happened, did the rebreather crap out on you?" He responds with, "no the current is too strong, it's not safe".
Now, I'm not the type to pick on a guy who feels the need to call the dive. You can call a dive for any reason, and I'll always support that. But, I will point out the fact, that the other two tourist boats moored near us had their AoW divers with their single Aluminum 80's making dives, despite the 2' seas and unsafe conditions. LOL Bwuauahahahahaha. So, to reiterate Dubai's point... those cold water divers got nothing on us.
Fair point. I think we who make generalizations along the lines that "cold water diving is more challenging" are showing our geographic biases. I immediately associate "cold water" with the Atlantic and the Pacific coast of the US. No doubt there are places in the world with warm water where the diving is nonetheless challenging, as well as places like some quarries with cold water where the diving is nonetheless easy. Still, in this part of the world, when talking to others from this part of the world, it seems like a useful generalization.
dumpsterDiver
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All things being equal, a cold water diver who is used to bulky gloves, a lot of lead, a cumbersome exposure suit, and bad visibility will do better in warm water, than a warm water diver who tries to jump into shockingly cold water, with a thick hood, mittens and 15 lbs more lead than he ever picked up. Of course, all things are not "equal", and in order to be good in a particular type of environment, you need to have experience in it.
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