Zero to hero Divemaster program in 30 days - thoughts?

[boulderjohn]

I will now admit to just a bit of disengenuousness. I don't hire instructors from outside my own operation at all. I identify candidates at the ow, aow, rescue level and recruit them into my DM program and the cream of that group get recruited into an IDC. While they are in training, they are, indeed, apprentices, but I won't graduate a DM unless I feel he is ready to enroll in an IDC. My DM program (from rescue diver) averages 8 months, the fastest I have ever had a student complete it was 2 months .

A laudable process, and one I would strive to adopt myself were I in your position. With the LDS with which I work, that is how almost all of us got where we are. There are, however, some people who came from the outside. Those people needed to be judged by their merits before being taken on the staff. There are only a couple, and I only know smatterings of how they got where they are. I can only judge them on what they can do now.

 

[Teamcasa]

... I had a pretty decent amount of experience before I decided to start going pro, and I thought I was pretty darn good, but I soon figured out that I had a lot to learn. It was very humbling. What if I had had a professional watching my every move for 60 of my early experience dives? I might have been a lot better than I was when I was ready to start.

So I'm on the fence with this. I am not going to dismiss things out of hand. I would like to see some results before I judge. As others have said, if someone comes out of such a program and does not have the skills you want, then don't hire. If the skills are there, though, would you turn that person away on general principles?

True enough!
As we all progress through our diving experience and the new skills we obtained, we all look back with some degree of amazement.

At 10 dives we knew little and admitted it.
At 50 dives we knew a lot, but by the grace of God, we somehow survived it.
At 100 dives we were excited to learn more.
At 200 dives we realized just how little we understood all of the complexities.
At 500 plus dives, if we were still diving, we are still excited to learn more.

For those with over 1000 dives, good for you and I hope to be in that club shortly.

 

[mikemill]

I will now admit to just a bit of disengenuousness. I don't hire instructors from outside my own operation at all. I identify candidates at the ow, aow, rescue level and recruit them into my DM program and the cream of that group get recruited into an IDC. While they are in training, they are, indeed, apprentices, but I won't graduate a DM unless I feel he is ready to enroll in an IDC. My DM program (from rescue diver) averages 8 months, the fastest I have ever had a student complete it was 2 months .

So in your program your dms/instructors have only learned from your own people? That's not good either. One should strive to learn from as many different people and groups as possible. If you stay with only one group then you only learn their ways which may not be the best way.

 

[SteveAD]

A laudable process, and one I would strive to adopt myself were I in your position. With the LDS with which I work, that is how almost all of us got where we are. There are, however, some people who came from the outside. Those people needed to be judged by their merits before being taken on the staff. There are only a couple, and I only know smatterings of how they got where they are. I can only judge them on what they can do now.

I have in the past 10 years hired a few "outside" instructors. Every single one of them was fired after 1 class for gross incompetence, maybe I've just been unlucky.

 

[muddiver]

No, all the good instructor moved to a warmer climate.

 

[nilsdiver]

I agree that 30 days is not enough time to make a diver. But since when do DMs need to dive??? A DM on a boat is surface support. A entirely different set of skills then diving.

What might a DM on a boat need to do well:

• Fill tanks
• Track divers in and out of the water
• Brief divers on the site / conditions
• Assist divers
• Cook / prep food
• Surface assistance
• Emergency Management / CPR / First AID / O2 / etc.

30 days X 8 hours a day is 240 hours of training. It is possible a DM class run by professional EMT's has better chance of producing a DM capable of handing an emergency then a standard DM class. I'm NOT saying I like the zero to hero idea. But I like the idea of DM training that really covers emergency management.

The only time I see dive masters diving is during their breaks generally.

 

[muddiver]

Sorry, but I think that you are using the typical California dive boat process to justify your asumptions. In Hawaii (and I think Mexico) it is standard operating procedure for every dive to be guided by a Divemaster or Instructor. I can't speak for the Cariben (sp?) operations. California is a bit unique that we do not have mandated guided dives (the mandate is by an association of boat owners usually).

 

[Thalassamania]

Zero to Diver in less than a month was also batted around years ago. Now look at all the "certified in a weekend" programs availabe. Good luck fighting the marketing and sales mentality.

What a system ... first we make sure that the course is too short to create a competent diver then we make sure that the instructor is not competent either!

I disagree. I am pretty confident that most of us regulars here would sniff out a zero-to-hero DM (or instructor) pretty quick. Especially if the conditions/boat/dive/plan/group was at all challenging.

If circumstances are benign and easy, then the zero-to-hero might not be so obvious. Which of course begs the question of whether they are even necessary for the rankest of beginners needing a "guide".

I agree.

rjack321 if there is no demand it will just die by itself as those guys will have corresponding reputation Those who hire them will eventually suffer if the DM does not do things satisfactory.

It appears to have already died.

 

[Clammy]

I've been toying with the idea of continuing on to DM myself even though I'm only just shy of 100 dives with less than 2 years and no diving experience outside of California (yet.) You know... the more gear, trips, or training question! I wouldn't mind going through this program as someone who is well probably not quite a zero but compared to many of you, pretty close to it.

However, I would want to go through it now for the training and catch up with the experience later. As someone already mentioned, better to practice knowing how to do it right than develop (any more) bad habits. I would simply abdicate the actual DM responsibilities until I had the experience or just stick with helping out with instructors present, much like the "apprenticeships" that SteveAD was talking about.

I have contemplated going all the way through the instructor programs for the same reason, my own training to make ME a better diver. At first I had no intention of instructing if I did become an instructor. I wouldn't want someone with say 100 dives in 4 locations in 1 year to train me (well I say that because I know better now than when I was someone trying to figure out how to start scuba diving) so why would I presume to think that I should do the same with only a bit more experience. It IS tempting though and I admit to thinking about it.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

This conversation is pretty silly; the candidates who will succeed in this program (many will) knows they bring what it takes, even if they don't have scuba dives. Nearly all who sign up for programs like this have more than enough faith in their abilities to ignore the nay-sayers.

If the student has what it takes and applies themselves, they can easily find work and move forwards. Just like the OW cert is only a learners permit, so also is even a Masters in Teaching; when you really go do it without your instructor the first time it is your first time.