Zero to hero Divemaster program in 30 days - thoughts?

[SteveAD]

Their course is $2,500. not 45k.

$2500 or $25 K? His post can be read either way "$2,4950 (sic)" is that a misplaces comma or an extra zero?

 

[muddiver]

Oh, well someone called Deputy Dan got it wrong.

As for SteveAD's post above, I was reading that other thread by divemedic1316 and I am really courious as to how he can post such contridictory threads.

 

[Teamcasa]

Well I do think everyone coming out of the program will be a decent diver. Some maybe more than decent, some less than average.

But I don't think you can be a good DM or instructor if you've only dove in one place and off one or two different boats. The good professionals are able to pull from a well of both diving and "human resource" experience. These graduates definitely won't have the former and are unlikely to develop the latter in 6 weeks - so by (my) definition they won't be good professionals.

I thought it was 25k

I would like to think that a dive operation looking to hire a newly minted DM (from that school or otherwise) would recognize that they are indeed an apprentice DM and treat them accordingly. They likely would mentor them until they were convinced of their skills and demonstrated the ability to progress to the next step.

Failure to that would be a dive operation failure, not a failure of the school or student.

 

[edm81363]

As a newly certified Divemaster, I simply can't imagine a non-diver becoming a DM this quickly.

During my DM class, I assisted with FIVE OW class cycles, from classroom 1 to OW 4. We worked Mon and Wed from 6pm to 11:30pm, usually a three hour class on Thursday and then diving from 7a to 2p on Saturday. My course took 6 MONTHS to complete. I've been on lots of challenging dives, especially ones with new students.

I can't see how a graduate of this class can provide a comparable level of service and safety.

 

[Teamcasa]

$2500 or $25 K? His post can be read either way "$2,4950 (sic)" is that a misplaces comma or an extra zero?

The typo was addressed here:

... If it was about our bank account then we would not offer the program for 2,500 bucks. The instructors are working Paramedics, Homeland Security divers, as well as PADI PROS. We will take as much time as needed with a Student to get them to pro level. I guarantee it, we will make you a pro.

 

[SteveAD]

I would like to think that a dive operation looking to hire a newly minted DM (from that school or otherwise) would recognize that they are indeed an apprentice DM and treat them accordingly. They likely would mentor them until they were convinced of their skills and demonstrated the ability to progress to the next step.

Failure to that would be a dive operation failure, not a failure of the school or student.

I will now admit to just a bit of disengenuousness. I don't hire instructors from outside my own operation at all. I identify candidates at the ow, aow, rescue level and recruit them into my DM program and the cream of that group get recruited into an IDC. While they are in training, they are, indeed, apprentices, but I won't graduate a DM unless I feel he is ready to enroll in an IDC. My DM program (from rescue diver) averages 8 months, the fastest I have ever had a student complete it was 2 months .

 

[Web Monkey]

I disagree. I am pretty confident that most of us regulars here would sniff out a zero-to-hero DM (or instructor) pretty quick. Especially if the conditions/boat/dive/plan/group was at all challenging.

If circumstances are benign and easy, then the zero-to-hero might not be so obvious. Which of course begs the question of whether they are even necessary for the rankest of beginners needing a "guide".

I'd prefer no DM at all and beleive that everybody would be safer without one because common sense would take over once they realize that "nobody is keeping me safe". However the entire concept that anybody can keep anybody else "safe" is a different topic.

On a small boat, it's easy. On the "vacation diver" cattle boats, the DM doesn't do much that you could "rate" them on. Also until everybody gets in the water with the DM, it's difficult to tell who "your" DM is anyway.

Terry

 

[muddiver]

I case anyone is interested: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/whine-cheeze/282047-keep-your-job.html

 

[boulderjohn]

I have never met anyone who graduated from a program like this, so I cannot speak from personal experience. However, I was talking about this recently with our course director, and he has had some experience with a similar programs's graduates. He said they (he was talking instructors) were surprisingly skilled. He was one who felt initially he would write anyone off from such a program, but the ones he saw were, in his opinion, superior to many of the people he knew who went a more conventional route.

I find it hard to believe myself, but like TeamCasa, I am reluctant to dismiss something out of hand. I can see arguments on both sides.

I think the advantage a progam has over a more conventional routes is that every single dive you do is observed by a professional and critiqued.

I think of my own skiing and diving experiences. In skiing in particular, I had some friends show me the ropes early on, and I spent many years practicing my skills, learning by observing others, before I took my first lesson. It was in that lesson that I learned I was doing just about everything wrong. Those people I was imitating were doing things wrong, and I was learning everything from them, ingraining their poor techniques into my own style. I took more lessons over the following years, and there are some bad habits I developed early in my life that I was flat never able to overcome. If I had had intense instruction over a period of time at the beginning of my career, I would have been a much better skier much earlier, and I would not have struggled to overcome all I was doing wrong.

My experiences were similar in diving. I had a pretty decent amount of experience before I decided to start going pro, and I thought I was pretty darn good, but I soon figured out that I had a lot to learn. It was very humbling. What if I had had a professional watching my every move for 60 of my early experience dives? I might have been a lot better than I was when I was ready to start.

So I'm on the fence with this. I am not going to dismiss things out of hand. I would like to see some results before I judge. As others have said, if someone comes out of such a program and does not have the skills you want, then don't hire. If the skills are there, though, would you turn that person away on general principles?

 

[SteveAD]

A truely effective dive prfessional must have both training and experience. Regardless of how good the training may be in a z t h program, they can not provide experience.