Your thoughts on LDS experience thread.......

[shoturtle]

My LDS is Leisurepro, 15 minute form my home. I have never had any problems. They take the time to answer any questions I have. Give me a great price for things I want, and have a killer selection. Any problem with gear I purchase, the problem is resolved quickly.

So does it count?

 

[1TexasDiver]

We enjoy the family atmosphere that our LDS has. When we started looking, this shop answered all our dumb questions with a straight face.Other shops in the area showed some intrest in helping but with attitude. So we made our choice and have spent way too much money there, and will continue to do so, as we still need to learn more about this great world of scuba

 

[scubashawn123]

Does anyone else feel like certifying agencies are a legal pyramid scheme?

Has anyone really ever made any money as a Scuba instructor with the costs to become an OW instructor or beyond?

I am completing my EFR instructor certification course next week, and just had to pay the start up kit price from PADI. Expensive Looking at AI next or full blown IDC courses for OW instructor.

Kind of interested in everyones feeling on this topic too.

IS it OK to hijack my own thread?



Shawn O'Shea

 

[Debraw]

If you play it right , selling more volume by lowering prices can be done. I always looked at the big picture and had a lot more divers in the water through Continuing Education ( which I also reduced in price). I sold a lot but I did not make a lot of money, and what I mean by "not a lot of money" was no money. I make more now working a regular job, a lot more. If I had it to do over again I definitely learned from a few mistakes I made, but then again I would NEVER do it again.

 

[scubashawn123]

If you play it right , selling more volume by lowering prices can be done. I always looked at the big picture and had a lot more divers in the water through Continuing Education ( which I also reduced in price). I sold a lot but I did not make a lot of money, and what I mean by "not a lot of money" was no money. I make more now working a regular job, a lot more. If I had it to do over again I definitely learned from a few mistakes I made, but then again I would NEVER do it again.

Hi Debraw,

With your experience would you agree that the diving industry needs restructuring from top to bottom to make it a viable growth industry in the market place with emphasis on the small business owner (dive shop owner)


I have so wanted to see the dive industry grow since 1974, and it just hangs flat based on manufacturer pricing, certifying agency structure and outrageous pricing and administration cost, including higher insurance costs than restaurants for a small business model. My adult children call it a luxury sport due to start up costs.

I personally feel these hard economic times may be a great opportunity for major changes to the way America does business. Especially Scuba Diving industry. Just my hope.

Thank you and everyone on Scubaboard for your inputs, opinions and feedback. I am so glad we can still talk in America.

Shawn O'Shea

 

[PvilleStang]

Shawn,

From a business standpoint, there are way too many LDS's out there for the industry to thrive on all levels. The dive industry, IMO, has shot itself in the foot by licensing out gear lines to specific shops, creating no-compete clauses (territory boundaries), etc. If the industry wanted to grow, more corporate owned dive shops would arise, enabling a WalMart effect of bulk ordering and near marginal cost sales. I do recall in Houston one of the outdoor sports warehouses (like the Sportsman Warehouse of Cabella's, but some other chain) opened an internal dive shop, which was something neat to see. They offered bottom tier quality gear (jacket style BCs, split fins, low quality masks, and other such cheaper gear) along with classes and air fills. If a large corporation could model after the Bass Pro Shop and bring together all lines of gear and have a decent supply on hand, along with having many locations across the US, then we might see large scale growth.

BUT, this would essentially keep most from enjoying the LDS experience. When AAS was open, I was glad to buy nearly all my stuff from Mike. I think it's a lot better thing to do rather than buy it off line and ask LDSs to service your crap. And being able to have someone available to help you rig your gear together that first time, help with your gear configurations, and just to bulls*** with is worth much more than the difference from buying your gear from leisurepro any day.

EDIT: Just as I wrote this, Rusty wrote of GANDER MOUNTAIN in Houston shutting down the SCUBA area... Great idea, but just poorly implemented on their behalf.

 

[scubashawn123]

Shawn,

From a business standpoint, there are way too many LDS's out there for the industry to thrive on all levels. The dive industry, IMO, has shot itself in the foot by licensing out gear lines to specific shops, creating no-compete clauses (territory boundaries), etc. If the industry wanted to grow, more corporate owned dive shops would arise, enabling a WalMart effect of bulk ordering and near marginal cost sales. I do recall in Houston one of the outdoor sports warehouses (like the Sportsman Warehouse of Cabella's, but some other chain) opened an internal dive shop, which was something neat to see. They offered bottom tier quality gear (jacket style BCs, split fins, low quality masks, and other such cheaper gear) along with classes and air fills. If a large corporation could model after the Bass Pro Shop and bring together all lines of gear and have a decent supply on hand, along with having many locations across the US, then we might see large scale growth.

BUT, this would essentially keep most from enjoying the LDS experience. When AAS was open, I was glad to buy nearly all my stuff from Mike. I think it's a lot better thing to do rather than buy it off line and ask LDSs to service your crap. And being able to have someone available to help you rig your gear together that first time, help with your gear configurations, and just to bulls*** with is worth much more than the difference from buying your gear from leisurepro any day.

EDIT: Just as I wrote this, Rusty wrote of GANDER MOUNTAIN in Houston shutting down the SCUBA area... Great idea, but just poorly implemented on their behalf.

Kevin, what about your thoughts on the cost of certifications in Scuba (continuing education and skills)?


Shawn O.

 

[PvilleStang]

Well, I think it's cyclical. As time goes on, I think the costs of certs will continue to go through the roof:
A person has to pay for every step of the way, and text books and equipment are essentially fixed costs for a diver. You have a base fixed cost for each cert that the agency requires the instructor to charge. On top of that, the instructor charges overhead fees for his time, and to offset his training costs and insurance and membership fees. The further you get into diving, the more the certs will cost due to the instructor having that much more experience and liability. So prices will climb, and as a diver reaches the instructor level, they in turn have incurred more cost getting there, and will relay these costs to the new students. Essentially a pyramid scheme...

 

[scubashawn123]

Well, I think it's cyclical. As time goes on, I think the costs of certs will continue to go through the roof:
A person has to pay for every step of the way, and text books and equipment are essentially fixed costs for a diver. You have a base fixed cost for each cert that the agency requires the instructor to charge. On top of that, the instructor charges overhead fees for his time, and to offset his training costs and insurance and membership fees. The further you get into diving, the more the certs will cost due to the instructor having that much more experience and liability. So prices will climb, and as a diver reaches the instructor level, they in turn have incurred more cost getting there, and will relay these costs to the new students. Essentially a pyramid scheme...

Exactly my point. Well spoken. So what is the reform solution to get out of this extremely expensive scheme in Scuba Diving?


Shawn O'Shea

 

[Mack Diver]

Some interesting observations:

You do not have to take lessons and be certified to snow ski or play golf. Yet, more people are injured / killed in each of these sports than scuba diving. You will pay more per hour for training in either of these sports compared to scuba diving, yet training is not required. If you are hurt or killed in either of these sports, it is doubtfull that you would file a lawsuit against the instructor (if you took lessons) or the ski resort / golf course. You would think that the same should apply for scuba instructors and dive operations, but you would be wrong. Granted, you may have the basis for a suit if the ski lift collapses, or the brakes on the golf cart fail, but still, you get the point.

Personally, I do not consider the cost of becoming an instructor to be that outragiously high, considering the amount of time and effort that the instructor trainer has to put forth. However, I do consider the cost of getting open water certified to be outrageously low, especially in the Austin area. Because of that, instructors receive outrageously low compensation for their work. I wish it were different, but my competition seems bent on giving away their services. They do not seem to mind loosing money, assuming they will make it up on volume.