Your thoughts on LDS experience thread.......

[promocop]

I try to buy as much as I can from my local dive shop (ECO Dive in SoCal) it's run by a husband and wife team that are great to deal with and thus far will discount some of the big ticket items I buy there. For me, it's of a way of saying 'thanks' for having a great local shop where I can take classes and hang out. To save a couple of bucks at some internet store across the country doesn't cut it. Yes, times have changed, and the draw to buy over the internet has certain adavantages, but some might say its ruined our economy as well. Local stores just can't compete. I keep my business local, if I don't, their shop will dry up and blow away, I for one don't want that to happen!

 

[k-valve]

Buoyancy control and other aspects of diving can be taught outside the tech relm, but there does not seem to be an area of focus for the recreational diver.

Sure they can, but they aren't. Those skills don't typically make it to the top of the list in a rec class. They should at some point...like AOW IMHO. They are key to tec classes...especially when you get to deco...especially trimix deco. Helium is far less forgiving of of poor bouyancy during deco stops. I'd sure like to see some of those "tec skills" incorporated into classes at the rec level.

I know these instructors have invested alot of time and effort to get to that level, but I think the pricing is what is keeping many otherwise interested divers out of the tech market.

Don't forget the money they've invested in equipment and training. An instructor course is even more expensive than us "regular guys" pay for a tech course. Let's not forget about the good old basic economics concept of supply and demand either. So far people are willing to pay $700-$800 for a tec class. There just aren't that many tech instructors out there either...at least not that many compared to recreational. Plus they keep an eye on each others' pricing. Just look at Austin. We really only have two full-fledged tec instructors who can teach everything from intro to trimix.

To address some of your and Shawn's concerns, I am working on a couple of new offerings that will make learning to dive more affordable for folks and hopefully keep current divers diving more. It combines some ideas that I have seen in shops in other areas. Hopefully it will be successfull here. I'll let you know as soon as I get the details worked out.

I can't wait to see what you've come up with, Mack. You already have some of the best customer service in town. I know we all appreciate that!

 

[pollywogg]

I have only been diving for about a year now. I have had some mixed experiences at dive shops. The nearest dive shop to me is a chain(diver's direct) and the people there are nice, but they don't have any of the bigger things (regs, bcs, gauges, knives) that I am specifically looking for. I ended up going to another dive shop near my school to buy my bc. I will leave this loooong story short, but I will never be going back to that shop again. I think that, just like any other type of business, dive shops come in all shapes and sizes, I feel that I am blessed to live in South Florida, in that there 100 dive shops in my area. It's a bit of a double edged sword though, because each shop tends to overspecialize.

 

[PvilleStang]

Some shop keepers get so irate when "internet sales" are mentioned that they embarrass customers and throw students out of class. Would we put up with this from our local grocery store? Wal-mart? Heck no. Yet the thought of "internet sales" is so threatening to the brick and mortar shops that they violate the very core of customer service. I feel so bad for our people on the board who have been treated like this.

Well, what I've observed in my years sitting on my arse at the LDS I used to shop at:
People will come in and waste employees time "browsing" the gear selection, trying things on and such. Many will find that thing they like, and buy it online. Essentially, they've wasted time and money of the LDS at this point. NOW, these items often need servicing, and they take it into the LDS, and ask for servicing. They want the same treatment of the guy next to him that bought the items from the shop, and nothing less. Yes, the internet shopper is thrifty, but they've essentially peed in the drinking well, and are looking for clean water. I know Mack and Robert, among others, can elaborate on this key issue.

 

[ReefHound]

Please seperate from being a wonderful small business owner of a dive shop. Go back to just being a diver and going PRO. I am working towards my PADI OW instructor certification. I am looking at about a $4500 to get their before I even have an opportunity to teach.

How do I recoup these costs in a business model in reference to your low compensation note above?

I'm in the same boat, trying to justify the investment. I think the inherent problem is the barrier to becoming instructor is too low, and there is a glut of instructors. We all want the barrier lower *for ourselves* but in the long run it would mean an even greater glut of instructors.

The agencies seem to indoctrinate new divers that they must continually advance to the next level. That pyramid scheme to which you refer. By the time you are AOW with a few specialties, you have been convinced that any "real" diver should aspire to be a DM. Then of course any DM should have the goal of being instructor.

I know so many instructors that are no longer active. They start off gung ho and get burned out or jaded within two years. They tire of the same OW class over and over. They are pushed by the shop to pimp gear and they don't like doing that even though it's the only way you can make much money.

You have to be fairly active to cover the costs but there are more instructors than classes for them. My shop has a compensation plan with different levels based on how active you are. Example, at highest level you get keyman and 10% commission on sales, at lowest level you get 15% discounts and 5% comm. But only 2 or 3 of their dozen available instructors could ever make the highest level. And every time I go in the shop they pump me to go instructor. I would love instructing (as I love DMing) but I just don't see where they have a need for me.

 

[Firefyter]

We visit our actual LDS now, in Sherman. Very sweet people, always treat us right, and are always very nice. Are they cheap? Nope. But, I don't care. Never did, all I want is good service. We have to supplement a little with shops further south, because this little Sherman shop is just a hobby for them, and they don't carry a lot. But whatever I can buy from them, I do. They in turn, don't care what we buy from them, or don't, they are always happy to do our fills, and vips, and talk our legs off, before we can get out of the store. Perfect, in my opinion.

Rhonda

Eric and Karen truly are great people. I don't have an actual LDS, I just buy from wherever I get the best price. However, Eric certified my wife and did a great job on her OW. He allowed me to sit in and audit both classroom and pool sessions, and I was thouroughly impressed with his teaching skills and attitude. So impressed, as a matter of fact, that I'm going to begin DM training with him next month. Great folks, and a pleasure to visit with, even if they do talk your ears off

 

[YellowfinKunkfish]

We have seriously been considering having him do our oldest son's OW. The only thing holding us back was the fact that we didn't know anyone he had certified, and have never had a chance to dive with him. Hearing this from you helps a lot, now all we have to do is wait for Tyler to finish up the school year with good grades, and we'll be good to go. If you're doing your DM with Eric, does that mean you might be helping out with Tyler's class? That would be even better!

Rhonda

 

[cruiser]

Well, what I've observed in my years sitting on my arse at the LDS I used to shop at:
People will come in and waste employees time "browsing" the gear selection, trying things on and such. Many will find that thing they like, and buy it online. Essentially, they've wasted time and money of the LDS at this point. NOW, these items often need servicing, and they take it into the LDS, and ask for servicing. They want the same treatment of the guy next to him that bought the items from the shop, and nothing less. Yes, the internet shopper is thrifty, but they've essentially peed in the drinking well, and are looking for clean water. I know Mack and Robert, among others, can elaborate on this key issue.

It's almost as if the trade is coaching shop owners in bullying behavior because it seems to be uniform among the LDS's that engage in it.

And what did the poster do wrong who had the LDS's ad in hand, advertising meeting competitors prices including internet sales, and then getting lambasted in front of other customers? Is that the best the LDS could do as a response? The LDS's are causing the very situation they are trying to avoid, and that is driving away business. Dive consumers today are more savvy and will use other resources at their disposal for purchasing dive gear, if Leisurepro's success is any indication.

Having said that, browsing equipment at the LDS and then buying on-line is just NOT COOL !

If divers buy-on line and then want their gear serviced, I think it's totally appropriate for the shop to charge a servicing fee. This would apply whether the customer bought his gear on-line, or bought it at his local LDS and just moved to Texas, or got it as a gift and doesn't know where it came from. I know I wouldn't mind paying to have an expert check out my gear--it's worth it

 

[scubashawn123]

I'm in the same boat, ........I would love instructing (as I love DMing) but I just don't see where they have a need for me.

Yes, you said it, the same point that I absolutely agree immensly. NO need for divers to advance professionally with the present structure.

The dive industry has so many talented and caring divers in it, certified and eager to contribute skills, time and money.

But until we promote or restructure the sport to grow it by leaps and bounds, most people will just be hanging in the wings waiting their turn to stand up and help. Which may never happen with the current state of affairs

GROWTH is the key to solving all of these issues brought up. Grow the sport, bring in the new divers, make them feel welcome and continue to be excited about the underwater world as they continue their own personal diving careers.

Yes, yes and yes...........I too want the industry to have a need for enthusiastic talented members of our diving community to participate.

Awesome point you make and the reason you are not continuing to instructor well spoken.

Growth and participation are key factors that are inter-related.

 

[Hemlon]

Keep in mind that if instructors were suddenly well-paid, the industry will attract people who are not really that good but are motivated by money.

The same issue is always a hot topic in public education, as my sweetie can tell you.